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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknell View Post
    The NFl is not based on ethics its all about winning games and producing income for owners. When making decisions they need to be based on football and not ethics. From an ethics stand point you would cut Ratliff, but from a football stance it makes no sense because he will be alot better playing a 4-3 front than a 3-4. Cut him and save 1 million that will get you nothing at the end of the day. Ratliff is one of the 2 leaders on this team and losing it would kill us just like last season
    You don't think he lost a little respect from some players for this? I know not all of them would care, but I guarantee there are a few who aren't going to listen to him now. Just getting a DWI probably wouldn't change anything, it's just getting one a month and a half after you bury a teammate who got killed in an accident caused by alcohol.
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  2. #77
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    I simply cannot get over Ratliff blowing a .16 weeks after his team mate and friend killed another team mate in a completely preventable tradgedy.
    What was he thinking?
    Why did he not call a cab?
    What did he not used the paid service?
    Because he didn't want to leave his car there?
    He was due to make 7 million dollars in 2013, how stupid can a person be.
    How sad because before this, I was a huge Jay Ratliff fan.
    Love the nose tackle position.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknell View Post
    The NFl is not based on ethics its all about winning games and producing income for owners. When making decisions they need to be based on football and not ethics. From an ethics stand point you would cut Ratliff, but from a football stance it makes no sense because he will be alot better playing a 4-3 front than a 3-4. Cut him and save 1 million that will get you nothing at the end of the day. Ratliff is one of the 2 leaders on this team and losing it would kill us just like last season
    the nfl is a bout marketing, making money, and entertainment.

    ethics is absolutly apart of the game.

    again, i would rather be 0-16 and have a team that was moral, ethical, and hard bust there *** workers, then a superbowl champion full of guys that half *** it, murderers, rapist, drug addicts, and all out douchebags.

    ethics is apart of the game. you have to be able to trust guys, count on guys.

    will he be suspended a few games? on probation, thrown in jail for a while? will he do this again? maybe before a game? is he going to be working out, rehabbing? or getting drunk all the time?

    i mean, if he is capable of getting that drunk. 0.16, driving, just a mere few months after what happened to brent, then what else could he do? and was he remorseful after he got caught? or was he a huge douchebag to the cops?

    exactly.

    im sure the other players on the team are wanting to follow this guy.

    you want a ray lewis type leader on our team?

    we already got one. his name is sean lee. great guy, strong leader, doesnt get in trouble, huge playmaker, classy guy.

    we dont need a ratliff. ( i used to love him to. 7th round pickup, thought he was better then this. i was wrong)

  4. #79
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    @Blacknell

    1. Bringing up Race relates to racism.

    Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.
    2. Race is part of this discussion because you believe those that come from a poor and or corrupt background need to be given a pass due to their upbringing. You attributed poor upbringing to the ghetto and African American while simultaneously referring to a well rounded background being from the suburbs and Anglo Saxon genealogy.

    3. If you don't think i understand that you're implying people from poor backgrounds have it harder then your mistaken. My argument is why should the penalties and laws be different for people who have had it worse when nothing has been promised? Life is a luxury, some have it nice, some have it rough, but the future of ones life is determined by the decisions they make. Ratliff and or Dez could blame their parents for teaching them incorrectly, but that excuse does not excuse poor behavior once they know the cause of it. It's now up to them to change it. They had a band hand dealt to them? So what, so have billions of people. You choose to play the hand or deal yourself a new one.

    4. No one in the hood has it worse than others areas of the world. I'm sorry, but you live in a free country with tons of opportunity. They choose not to accept the help that has been given and or available.

    5. If you don't understand the school example i don't know what to tell you.

    6. Glad you liked my hood analogy, I had fun with it too!

    7. For future reference, you and i disagree on this, probably other things as well. We may have a different moral outlook on things, but please know in no way am i trying to personally attack you. In my eyes a difference of opinion is just that. Nothing more nothing less. I don't know you, if i saw you on the street i wouldn't know it was you so my opinion is just that, right or wrong, it's not meant to be personal.

    8. My analogies in my conversations pertain mainly to principles unless otherwise stated. So for example, when someone believes Jimmy Johnson wasn't the brains behind the championship success in the 90's because he couldn't duplicate it in Miami i acknowledge the principle used at the core. When someone uses the the theory that people of humble background should be given a pass i use examples to show that the theory is flawed. If those examples stem from outside of football so be it because we're discussing the theory.

    9. Killer instinct - Define it? I'm assuming you're referring to
    an aggressive tenacious urge for domination in a struggle to attain a set goal
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...ler%20instinct

    (A). Having this characteristic is one thing, but at the expense of sportsmanship is another. However you can be a Ray Lewis type and be a good sportsman.

    (B).
    Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.
    - Wikipedia

    (C). Sportsmanship is a component of morality -
    Sportsmanship typically is regarded as a component of morality in sport, composed of three related and perhaps overlapping concepts: fair play, sportsmanship, and character
    - Shields & Breadwinner, 1995.

    (D). One can play hard and dominate and also has sportsmanship.

    (E). Your example of not liking it when Ware helps up an opposing QB is irrelevant because not only has Ware dominated, he'll probably go down as one of the best, all while having both a killer instinct and sportsmanship.

    (F). Actually your comparison of Sportsmanship and Killer Instinct is somewhat irrelevant because their different things not related to one another.

    10. There wasn't a rule about dress code because there wasn't a problem. The players of the NBA respected the image of the NBA, respected themselves, and respected society. It wasn't until the NBA began shifting from Jordan to a more urban image that things began to change in the ratings department. Jordan dominated ratings as the NBA was one of the most watched sports during his time. Part of that was apparent to Jordan's image. The NBA slipped in ratings when Jordan began to age and end his career. The NBA needed new stars and needed them quickly. They relaxed on all rules and ways of practice to find the next Jordan.

    Iverson wanted to oppose establishment. As it pertains to race and genealogy what part of dressing like that represents Africa. You've shown that dressing like that is part of African heritage, but it's not. Hence why i have no more of a connection to Anglo Saxons history of 500 AD then you do of African history. Just because our skin color matches those decedents does not mean we live like them, 1500+ years later. That's just another excuse used to act foolishly.

    11. How a person dresses in public is a statement of respect. You dress foolishly people won't take you seriously. If Dez Bryant wants his pants around his ankles don't expect to force someone to accept that behavior and respect you at the same time. No one has a gun to your head telling you your breaking a law by the clothes you wear, but at the same time no one has a gun to other people telling them they have to accept it and or respect it.

    12. All of this, race, background, history, examples, definitions, etc all relate to the topic at hand because the discussion is based on what if anything should be done with Ratliff. Some believe his actions aren't a cause for punishment whether it be based on his background, skin color, ethics, childhood, education, on the field contributions, and or lack of replacement. On the other hand some value ethics and morality higher than on the field contributions. Some don't believe the end justifies the mean.

    13. You blame Dallas for not being mean, but look at the direction of the NFL. Eventually you'll have to ask the QB if it's okay to tackle him. When the league has changed and people don't fear a team it's usually do to the state of the league.

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    ^ Rawz. While I don't want a team full of criminals, I don't want a team full of choir boys either. You need some edge on a team and some people with a mean streak, killer competitive attitude. Given your statement that you'd rather go 0-16 than have criminals on the squad, I can safely assume that you were not a fan of the Cowboys team in the 90s and don't value those Super Bowls?

    You reference Ray Lewis and then say Sean Lee is the same and doesn't get in trouble. I love him, but you do know that Ray Lewis wasn't always Mr. Squeaky Clean, Bible quoting MLB right? Coming out of Miami and even after a few years in the NFL he was a questionable individual. He has the ability to lead because he is the NFL equivalent of an "OG" and he has earned respect as such. He also has that competitive edge, mean streak, killer instinct that has afforded him the ability to lead his players and strike fear in the hearts of others. You still don't see your example, Ray Lewis helping opponents up off the turf either. Sean Lee is turning into a leader, but don't reference Ray Lewis and use him as an example of a guy that is squeaky clean.

    You make Ratliff out to be a horrible guy for a DUI. It sucks and it was a lapse in judgement, made even worse due to the Brent/Brown situation, but it isn't the end of the world, there are much, much, worse things he could have done. He got drunk and messed up. The cop wasn't even initially aware or under the impression that Ratliff was intoxicated. I think it is hypocritical for us to kill someone for driving under the influence. I rarely drink anymore and as a result definitely do not drive under the influence, but I would be lying if I said that I have never gotten behind the wheel when I was probably above the legal limit at some point in my life. I think that holds true to most men who are legally allowed to drink and have a drivers license.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by baazinakon View Post
    ^ Rawz. While I don't want a team full of criminals, I don't want a team full of choir boys either. You need some edge on a team and some people with a mean streak, killer competitive attitude. Given your statement that you'd rather go 0-16 than have criminals on the squad, I can safely assume that you were not a fan of the Cowboys team in the 90s and don't value those Super Bowls?

    You reference Ray Lewis and then say Sean Lee is the same and doesn't get in trouble. I love him, but you do know that Ray Lewis wasn't always Mr. Squeaky Clean, Bible quoting MLB right? Coming out of Miami and even after a few years in the NFL he was a questionable individual. He has the ability to lead because he is the NFL equivalent of an "OG" and he has earned respect as such. He also has that competitive edge, mean streak, killer instinct that has afforded him the ability to lead his players and strike fear in the hearts of others. You still don't see your example, Ray Lewis helping opponents up off the turf either. Sean Lee is turning into a leader, but don't reference Ray Lewis and use him as an example of a guy that is squeaky clean.

    You make Ratliff out to be a horrible guy for a DUI. It sucks and it was a lapse in judgement, made even worse due to the Brent/Brown situation, but it isn't the end of the world, there are much, much, worse things he could have done. He got drunk and messed up. The cop wasn't even initially aware or under the impression that Ratliff was intoxicated. I think it is hypocritical for us to kill someone for driving under the influence. I rarely drink anymore and as a result definitely do not drive under the influence, but I would be lying if I said that I have never gotten behind the wheel when I was probably above the legal limit at some point in my life. I think that holds true to most men who are legally allowed to drink and have a drivers license.
    huge fan of the early cowboys team.

    but things have changed. internet, the media, it changed the game.

    and having a team of choir boys is far from what i mean.

    you can be aggressive, have an edge, and a killer extinct on the field, and not get arrested, or be a total douchebag off the field.

    no team is perfect.

    packers, they have a pretty good image, and dont have a team full of scumbags. im just saying. getting a dui is one thing. getting one now, is another.

  7. #82
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    am i missing something? Weren't the cowboy legal troubles of the 90's post superbowls?

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawz View Post
    huge fan of the early cowboys team.

    but things have changed. internet, the media, it changed the game.

    and having a team of choir boys is far from what i mean.

    you can be aggressive, have an edge, and a killer extinct on the field, and not get arrested, or be a total douchebag off the field.

    no team is perfect.

    packers, they have a pretty good image, and dont have a team full of scumbags. im just saying. getting a dui is one thing. getting one now, is another.
    You have more access to more information, more truth and more direct words from players. It doesn't change what they do/did or who they are/were. How can you be a fan of the 90s Cowboys when they check off so many boxes from your own criteria of what you consider terrible, the kind of players that you'd rather not have and go winless?

    You need to be fair and also admit that nowadays it is also easier for players to get arrested and things to come out against players. Some small things that may not have come to light back in the day does make it public now. It's even harder on the players to stay out of trouble and even harder to try live up the "role model" "choir boy" expectations so many fans have for players.

    That is true, and Sean Lee seems to be developing into that type of player and leader, I was just pointing out the flaw in using Ray Lewis as an example of that type of player and leader.

    I actually think the Packers are team that is full of Douchebags as you call it, but that is an opinion which will vary from individual to individual. I think the 49ers, Seahawks, and Ravens are great examples of teams that play physically, with a killer instinct and have strong leaders, without constantly being in the news for being in trouble with the law. That said they have had their issues, but none that are very severe. All those teams will fight with opponents, hit as hard as possible, and not help opponents up off the ground. They aren't great role models for life or even for sportsmanship which seems to be highly important to you. I've rather have a winning team than one that fits your criteria.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by baazinakon View Post
    You need to be fair and also admit that nowadays it is also easier for players to get arrested and things to come out against players. Some small things that may not have come to light back in the day does make it public now. It's even harder on the players to stay out of trouble and even harder to try live up the "role model" "choir boy" expectations so many fans have for players.
    1. It's easier to get arrested because laws have changed or more have been added, but right and wrong has not.

    2. Kids have always looked up to larger than life people. That's always been that way and it's never going to change, so it's part of the job of being an athlete which means if the athlete is in capable of doing such, and it's part of the career choice, they either have to suck it up and do something they don't like to do or find a different profession. So if they want the money, the fame, and the lifestyle they are subject to the same rules, assumptions, stipulations, and SOP's that have been apart of the sport and society for decades.

    3. Just because it's easier to do something wrong doesn't mean it's an excuse to do something wrong. It's easier for countries to annihilate each other on global scale, but we aren't doing it. The advent of technology has made it so, but that give us an excuse to act foolishly.

    4. Didn't the Cowboys of the 90's have problems post SBs?

    5. No one is asking for a super hero, people are asking for morally sounds people who know the difference between right and wrong. Having the discussion on whether or not people should treat others like they want to be treated, and whether or not that's a sound mindset is an indication of the path fans, players, and society is on.

    When has treating and respecting others how you want to be treated become a negative? It's ironic that it takes Brent to kill someone while under the influence for people to say it was wrong, but Ratliff doing the same thing without causing fatalities is acceptable. Does it take someone dying for society and fans to say "he needs to be punished?" Wouldn't it be wise to refuse to accept the bad behavior before someone get's hurt or killed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01 View Post
    1. It's easier to get arrested because laws have changed or more have been added, but right and wrong has not.

    2. Kids have always looked up to larger than life people. That's always been that way and it's never going to change, so it's part of the job of being an athlete which means if the athlete is in capable of doing such, and it's part of the career choice, they either have to suck it up and do something they don't like to do or find a different profession. So if they want the money, the fame, and the lifestyle they are subject to the same rules, assumptions, stipulations, and SOP's that have been apart of the sport and society for decades.

    3. Just because it's easier to do something wrong doesn't mean it's an excuse to do something wrong. It's easier for countries to annihilate each other on global scale, but we aren't doing it. The advent of technology has made it so, but that give us an excuse to act foolishly.

    4. Didn't the Cowboys of the 90's have problems post SBs?

    5. No one is asking for a super hero, people are asking for morally sounds people who know the difference between right and wrong. Having the discussion on whether or not people should treat others like they want to be treated, and whether or not that's a sound mindset is an indication of the path fans, players, and society is on.

    When has treating and respecting others how you want to be treated become a negative? It's ironic that it takes Brent to kill someone while under the influence for people to say it was wrong, but Ratliff doing the same thing without causing fatalities is acceptable. Does it take someone dying for society and fans to say "he needs to be punished?" Wouldn't it be wise to refuse to accept the bad behavior before someone get's hurt or killed?
    To be honest, I never commented on the whole Brent issue and while I think it is a horrible and horrific incident, I don't want Brent thrown to the wolves. What he did was really really stupid and lead to the loss of someone's life, which is terrible, but as I said before **** happens and people make mistakes. Brown and Brent both made a mistake that night. I still am not sure how intoxicated Brent was, but if he was .16 like Ratliff, it is very understandable that he would drive. Brown's own Familly has requested that Brent not have the book thrown at him.

    All I am saying is that I will take relatively small and minor infractions to have some of the best players and most success. Irvin did a lot of blow/crack and banged a lot of women, even references the latter in the America's Game show he helps narrate, but he was a model of how a professional should act, as he was one of the hardest workers who was always on time and have his job his all. So he can be a role model for work ethic and that is all that I can ask of someone at their job. If you break laws and do things that prevent you from being present and/or doing your job, then you no longer are being as professional as you can be.

    Again, I don't want criminals, I just understand that these are football players and **** happens. I want the best players and best people possible, but Inunderstand that in every group there will be a few very talented people who are a little home headed and as long as their infractions aren't absolutely terrible and/or a common occurrence, I am willing to deal with that and take the success that may accompany it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01 View Post
    am i missing something? Weren't the cowboy legal troubles of the 90's post superbowls?
    I don't think so. Irvin was hitting lines of that good white stuff during there super bowl runs. You see nobody cares he was out hitting lines of that pure white columbian coke because the Cowboys were winning. Before the NFC divisional game him and Eric Williams were out sexually assaulting women, but noone cared because they were winning football games.

    Bad behavior is acceptable if you are a winner and that goes for high school and college as well. As long as you winning you can do whatever you please, whenever you please.

    I wanna touch on your African statment, no black person considers themselves African or associate themselves with African heritage. So when I said African American culture that just means blacks in America, not some Africans whose culture we reject. Just wanted to clear that up, I know school may have you think other wise but i'm letting you know that the two cultures hate each other.

    Clothing is a thing that should be left alone because I don't think it has anything to do with respect. Like I said before you might think skinny jeans and tight shirts are respectable clothing, but I don't as I feel it promotes homosexuality. You think busting a sag is disrespectful but to me its just how majority of young blacks dress and doesn't bother me unless he has the sag down to the knees where it is just stupid looking. Just because you don't dress how the media wants you to doesn't mean your trying to oppose establishment. It means you like wearing what you like and paying your hard erned money on what you like. Should you have to dress the way I want you, and pay for the clothing with your own money? You have to grasp the fact that people like Dez and iverson spend there time with the black community, so at the end of the day they were dressing for the company they kept. They weren't kicking it at the country club with Gregory and Biff drinking Martini's so why dress like that? They would get clowned chilling with their boys and they have on skinny jeans and nerd glasses with no lens.

    I don't believe Ratliff deserves a past because of his past, I just don't think a DWI is a big deal because all back grounds get DWI's and act like fools when they have Henn dog in their systems.
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    What makes me upset is that no player has stood up for Ratliff. That shows this team has no leaders and aren't down for eachother. Shannon Sharpe had Ray lewis back when he was getting dogged for murder when they were at the 2000 super bowl and thats how a true leader and teamate should act. In high school we had a player who was accused of statutory rape and we didn't turn our backs on him we stuck up for him at school, even though we knew he did it. Situations like this make a team closer especially when you see your a brother to them you play harder because you won't let a brother down
    Time to get swole baby ooooo yea back in the gym

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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknell View Post
    I don't think so. Irvin was hitting lines of that good white stuff during there super bowl runs. You see nobody cares he was out hitting lines of that pure white columbian coke because the Cowboys were winning. Before the NFC divisional game him and Eric Williams were out sexually assaulting women, but noone cared because they were winning football games.

    Bad behavior is acceptable if you are a winner and that goes for high school and college as well. As long as you winning you can do whatever you please, whenever you please.

    I wanna touch on your African statment, no black person considers themselves African or associate themselves with African heritage. So when I said African American culture that just means blacks in America, not some Africans whose culture we reject. Just wanted to clear that up, I know school may have you think other wise but i'm letting you know that the two cultures hate each other.

    Clothing is a thing that should be left alone because I don't think it has anything to do with respect. Like I said before you might think skinny jeans and tight shirts are respectable clothing, but I don't as I feel it promotes homosexuality. You think busting a sag is disrespectful but to me its just how majority of young blacks dress and doesn't bother me unless he has the sag down to the knees where it is just stupid looking. Just because you don't dress how the media wants you to doesn't mean your trying to oppose establishment. It means you like wearing what you like and paying your hard erned money on what you like. Should you have to dress the way I want you, and pay for the clothing with your own money? You have to grasp the fact that people like Dez and iverson spend there time with the black community, so at the end of the day they were dressing for the company they kept. They weren't kicking it at the country club with Gregory and Biff drinking Martini's so why dress like that? They would get clowned chilling with their boys and they have on skinny jeans and nerd glasses with no lens.

    I don't believe Ratliff deserves a past because of his past, I just don't think a DWI is a big deal because all back grounds get DWI's and act like fools when they have Henn dog in their systems.
    Irvin didn't get a arrested for cocaine until 1996. i don't feel like digging into the research as i do plenty of it all the time, but please feel free to show me some facts on when irvin and others broke the law.

    bad behavior may be acceptable by some, but it's not acceptable by me. never has been, never will be. if that's your argument and you believe it needs to be changed then i agree. But if that's your argument then everyone who accepts it is at fault. Black, white, oriental, etc.

    "African American" refers to people are citizens or residents of the United States who have total or partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa, yet they have no connection with the ways of their ancestors. If you argue that, then stop with the Anglo Saxon talk as those ways are 1500 years old.

    If you refer to blacks in America stop segmenting them by calling them african american. just call them blacks or americans. again, please watch when trying to tell me what i know or don't know. you seem to use that tactic to get a point across, but it doesn't make your argument sound legitimate.

    you think clothing should be left alone, yet you brought it up. see if you don't agree with it then everyone else should feel the same. just like if you think someone deserves a pass for their past then you think everyone who disagrees doesn't understand or are the problem. read the original comment you made.

    Clothing in public has always been about image and respect. don't distort the facts. busting a sag isn't wearing clothes by the simplest definition. you first started saying it was the anglo saxon aka white man, now it's the media, yet the majority of the media are liberal.

    Jeans are jeans. how you wear them is entirely different. two people can wear the same pair of jeans and one look respectful and the other look immature. If the style of clothing is all about self image and how you dress in public garnishes respect and style and yet you choose to wear something that makes a mockery of the current style and or image, aka respect for the community, then you're anti establishment.

    this stuff is pretty elementary.

    So you have shifted your stance on Ratliff now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknell View Post
    What makes me upset is that no player has stood up for Ratliff. That shows this team has no leaders and aren't down for eachother. Shannon Sharpe had Ray lewis back when he was getting dogged for murder when they were at the 2000 super bowl and thats how a true leader and teamate should act. In high school we had a player who was accused of statutory rape and we didn't turn our backs on him we stuck up for him at school, even though we knew he did it. Situations like this make a team closer especially when you see your a brother to them you play harder because you won't let a brother down
    not standing up for a guy who just committed a crime after the cowboys lost a player from the same act = no team leaders?

    You have this mindset that if things don't happen your way, regardless of how unethical or how many double standards are used then everyone else is at fault. Listen to how ridiculous it sounds.

    Brent kills another man while drinking and driving, less than a month later Ratliff drinks and drives and almost causes an accident and no one stands up and defends his actions and choices and you blame everyone else.

    That amazes me and saddens me at the same time.

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    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01 View Post
    not standing up for a guy who just committed a crime after the cowboys lost a player from the same act = no team leaders?

    You have this mindset that if things don't happen your way, regardless of how unethical or how many double standards are used then everyone else is at fault. Listen to how ridiculous it sounds.

    Brent kills another man while drinking and driving, less than a month later Ratliff drinks and drives and almost causes an accident and no one stands up and defends his actions and choices and you blame everyone else.

    That amazes me and saddens me at the same time.
    Time to get swole baby ooooo yea back in the gym

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