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  1. #91
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    Is anything on this roster a "sure" thing to count on this year? Maybe Papelbon as the closer....you know what you'll get out of him....

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bajecco View Post
    Delmon Young could morph into Ryan Braun and this team still won't sniff the Braves or Nat's.

    I appreciate your optimism regarding that scumbag Young, but he is what he is and that's not good. He's not going to miraculously play good defense, make more contact & get on base more regardless of how well conditioned he is.
    That's a bit of an overstatement. Put Ryan Braun on this team and... just, nvm.

    Just not sure how a team with Howard, Utley, Rollins, Ruiz, M. Young, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Papelbon and Revere doesn't "sniff" WAS & ATL. If all our top tier guys have top tier years, as they have generally done over their careers, and the LF/ RF platoobs have decent years then yes, we're right there.
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  3. #93
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    Lots of ifs considering the age and injury history of all of them

  4. #94
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    Ender you'll enjoy this

    1, 4, 3, 4, 0, 4, 5, 5, 1.5, 2.5
    30

    Those are the names you mentioned converted into WAR projections. Replacement level is roughly 46 wins, which means those names you mentioned should push the Phillies to 76 wins. The platoobs, back of the rotation, and bullpen might account for another 8 wins. So that's roughly 84 wins in a more or less perfect world scenario.

    So I guess it comes down to how loosely you define "sniff." The Braves and Nats are looking at over 90 wins on paper.

    Thankfully, this is all on paper. We'll see how it plays out.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    That's a bit of an overstatement. Put Ryan Braun on this team and... just, nvm.

    Just not sure how a team with Howard, Utley, Rollins, Ruiz, M. Young, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Papelbon and Revere doesn't "sniff" WAS & ATL. If all our top tier guys have top tier years, as they have generally done over their careers, and the LF/ RF platoobs have decent years then yes, we're right there.
    I stand by my statement. I'm a die hard Phillies fan, but can't buy into this team as a contender. Very rarely does a team with as many issues (age, suspension, unproven players, 2 95+ teams in the division) as the Phillies have everything go right.

    M. Young, Howard & Rollins are in a steep decline in the field and at the plate.

    Utley still has it, but is wearing down. He's missed 45+ games 3 years in a row.

    Halladay is a year older and coming off an injury riddled season.

    We have no proven OF's.

    Our best player will miss the 1st the 25 games.

    The Nat's & Braves are probable 95 win teams.

    We arguably have the worst fielding team in the NL.

    I'll stop there. Can all of that stuff work out in the Phillies favor? Call me pessimistic, but I think not and I'm unhappy about it.

    EDIT: I'd like to add that our GM is a clueless, embarrassing knucklehead .
    Last edited by Bajecco; 01-25-2013 at 04:45 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    That's a bit of an overstatement. Put Ryan Braun on this team and... just, nvm.

    Just not sure how a team with Howard, Utley, Rollins, Ruiz, M. Young, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Papelbon and Revere doesn't "sniff" WAS & ATL. If all our top tier guys have top tier years, as they have generally done over their careers, and the LF/ RF platoobs have decent years then yes, we're right there.
    Most everything said on this site has become an over statement, wouldn't you say? Everyone rips every move the Phillies make, but I'm still trying to figure out if there were moves to be made that were better. Everyone just about gaurantees that if we did something different then we did that we'd still be the best team in the league. I find it funny, there isn't a single person in the world that knows if we'd be better off or worse off if different moves were made, because we don't know what would've happened. How can you say the Pence trade was a bad one? Do you know we even would've made the playoffs in '11 without him? Do we know the prospects we traded will be any good? Certainly we are not better last years or this year if we had those prospects. I just don't know why everyone seems to think it should've been simple to maintain 2008's level of excellence?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxpower View Post
    Most everything said on this site has become an over statement, wouldn't you say? Everyone rips every move the Phillies make, but I'm still trying to figure out if there were moves to be made that were better. Everyone just about gaurantees that if we did something different then we did that we'd still be the best team in the league. I find it funny, there isn't a single person in the world that knows if we'd be better off or worse off if different moves were made, because we don't know what would've happened. How can you say the Pence trade was a bad one? Do you know we even would've made the playoffs in '11 without him? Do we know the prospects we traded will be any good? Certainly we are not better last years or this year if we had those prospects. I just don't know why everyone seems to think it should've been simple to maintain 2008's level of excellence?
    Leaving aside the rest of this post, do you honestly believe that two months of Hunter Pence was worth 12 wins to the Phillies? Because that's what you're suggesting, and that's just crazy.

  8. #98
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    There were a couple moves that were concerning as they happened - namely Pence and Howard. The second Lee trade also qualifies here, but that was later remedied obviously.

    It's only a couple extra good prospects and roughly $25 mil per season, but that could have amounted to enough ammunition to trade for Headley rather than Young plus a couple mid-tier free agents to shore up the OF or rotation.
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  9. #99
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    The Howard move was just insane. He tried to outsmart the future. He saw the arod stupidity and assumed pujols would see 30 mil. He grossly overestimated and burdened the team unnecessarily. Scouting and drafting are what has really set this team back. Toolsy has gotten us crap like Hewitt and other no better than fringe prospects. That has to change first.
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  10. #100
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    Given the picks the Phillies have had, their production of prospects has been consistent with league wide rates. I'm not inclined to heap any blame on scouting or drafting.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bajecco View Post
    I stand by my statement. I'm a die hard Phillies fan, but can't buy into this team as a contender. Very rarely does a team with as many issues (age, suspension, unproven players, 2 95+ teams in the division) as the Phillies have everything go right.

    M. Young, Howard & Rollins are in a steep decline in the field and at the plate.

    Utley still has it, but is wearing down. He's missed 45+ games 3 years in a row.

    Halladay is a year older and coming off an injury riddled season.

    We have no proven OF's.

    Our best player will miss the 1st the 25 games.

    The Nat's & Braves are probable 95 win teams.

    We arguably have the worst fielding team in the NL.

    I'll stop there. Can all of that stuff work out in the Phillies favor? Call me pessimistic, but I think not and I'm unhappy about it.

    EDIT: I'd like to add that our GM is a clueless, embarrassing knucklehead .
    Well, since things rarely go as predicted or as summed up on paper, I'm inclined to give a team with championship pedigree the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how likely or unlikely Utley/ Howard/ Young/ Rollins are to have good or bad years. I just know they usually have good ones, and none did last year, so that tells me they are probably due for better years than last year.

    Consider this; literally everything went wrong last year and we finished at .500. Are not healthy years from the offensive core and our #1 and better luck for our #2 worth 8-10 wins? Now we're around 90. Will everything go perfect for the Nats again? Who knows, but let's say they drop 3-5 wins. Now we're "right there" and "sniffing" WAS. Will ATL's decreased depth come back to haunt them if any of their top line starters goes down with injury? Again, who knows.

    We're not the only team in MLB with a lot of if's. Lots of teams look better on paper (see: Pujols, Albert), and lots of teams underwhelm.

    As for your RAJ statement; Is he Branch Rickey? No. Is he Ed Wade? No. He's been a decent GM who has had the stones to make moves when they are there and strike quickly when necessary, even if in hindsight it wasn't. He is eviscerated when he makes big ticket signings and small ticket signings, big trades, small trades or non-trades. I am not an apologist, but I do believe he has done everything in the interests of improving the club. And, like everything in life, some things work and some things don't.
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  12. #102
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    A grand total of 0 (zero) prospects we've moved in the last 5 years has come back to haunt us, while the jury is still out on a couple.
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  13. #103
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    Difference between Wade and Amaro is that Amaro had $185 million budget to **** this team up with. Wade was bad but he did have more of a hand in the World Series then Amaro. Howard, Utley, Hamels and Burrell were all drafted in his tenure. He also hired Manuel.

  14. #104
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    Yeah seriously hating on Ed Wade is so late 90's. That guy should be applauded for essentially building the '08 team with a touch of Gillick magic.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by godunkadunk8 View Post
    Yeah seriously hating on Ed Wade is so late 90's. That guy should be applauded for essentially building the '08 team with a touch of Gillick magic.
    Eh, he gets some credit but Arbuckle was the one who was in charge of scouting and telling Wade to pick them. Its thanks to Wade/Arbuckle and polished by Gillick

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