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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    It's easy to be an expert when you don't have money riding on it. I'm just saying, the people who make hundreds of millions of dollars a year doing this didn't think LA was for real. And to be frank, LA's offense was a joke until Jeff Carter (go figure) showed up after the trade deadline.
    The Hockey Writers 2011-2012 prediction
    Prediction: 3rd in west

    "They join the truly elite this season"
    -Prediction: 4th in the west

    This is ESPN's predicitons
    - Prediction: 2 people had them in the cup, 4 had them winning the Pacific

    But yes. They were a marginal tem and people who work for subcribers and write for a living didn't think that LA was for real. Now is ESPN, the Hockey News or the Hockey Writers the end all be all? No. It's not. In fact, sometimes, I find their analysis simple and stupid. But when you have a theme of people picking LA to finish in the top 3 or 4 of a conference, and people picking them for the Cup, you have to understand they were one of the early favorites.

    Oh and here are some of the odd lines from Las Vegas

    17/1
    They were 10th. Just 2 points behind the Hawks, the previous year's champs.
    U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

    I'm a Chicago Cubs, Philadelphia Eagles, Philadelphia Flyers, and a University of Kentucky fan. You may be a Dallas Cowboys fan, a St. Louis Cardinals fan, a Pittsburgh Penguins fan or a Louisville Cardinals alumn. From June 12 - July 13, we are both American. Go, go, USA!

  2. #47
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    I was among the people that thought LA was going to be a very good team. I'll readily admit that I didn't think they had the offense to make it to the Cup, and that I wasn't sure Quick could carry them to the Cup. I was wrong on those fronts.

    But that being said, I dont' think these Flyers are last year's Kings. I don't think Bryzgalov can put on a performance like Quick did in the playoffs. And what's more -- I don't think the Flyers have the scoring depth to actually score the goals they need to win.
    Last edited by Ace23; 01-24-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  3. #48
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    Wow we are not the kings. We don't have half of what they do, intangibles and all.

  4. #49
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    Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

    Woywitka (STL) and Kennedy (SJS) clear waivers. PHI puts Niko Hovinen on unconditional $125 waivers for mutual termination of contract.

    Clearing a contract spot for who Homer????

  5. #50
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    we made our bed when we traded Richards ... this is the team we have to sleep with for another 2 years and hope for the best ... assuming we kept richards, this team is way better


    Hartnell Richards Briere
    JVR Giroux Vorachek
    Talbot Couturier Read
    Rinaldo someone Wellwood

    Kimo Carle
    Mez Coburn
    Grossmann [insert defender]

    bryz


    if we had pronger, the above team would even be better ...


    to this point, the Richards trade seems to be hurting us a bit


    the Carter trade was a huge help


    Richards for Simmonds and Schenn - and by proxy, we would not have traded for the other Schenn and would have kept JVR

  6. #51
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    It is an interesting point. Bringing up now is probably bad timing, all things considered. Honestly though it is a worthwhile conversation to have as long as it is kept to just that…a conversation.

    Homer, in my opinion, has two to maybe three years before his tenure is called into question. He needs a Cup in that time period or his moves were a bust. Richards and Carter have already won a cup together and no matter how you slice it, that is a loss for the Flyers and Homer column. It’ll be interesting to see the numbers split between Bob and Bryz moving forward. I think that is one that could end up as a point in the loss column for us as well. We only got a year or two out of Pronger for the cost of Sbisa (who is, at this point, a second pairing guy and nothing more) and four first round draft selections.

    While I wasn’t a fan of a lot of the deals made (Richards, Carter, Pronger, Bryz), I kept it to myself for the most part because I wasn’t upset with the team that came out of it. That being said Homer certainly isn’t infallible and will be on the hot seat until this team produces. Keep in mind that I fully understand that this team needs time, hence the two to three year window afforded to Homer. Still, this could all end up being a huge bust.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by elate View Post
    It is an interesting point. Bringing up now is probably bad timing, all things considered. Honestly though it is a worthwhile conversation to have as long as it is kept to just that…a conversation.

    Homer, in my opinion, has two to maybe three years before his tenure is called into question. He needs a Cup in that time period or his moves were a bust. Richards and Carter have already won a cup together and no matter how you slice it, that is a loss for the Flyers and Homer column. It’ll be interesting to see the numbers split between Bob and Bryz moving forward. I think that is one that could end up as a point in the loss column for us as well. We only got a year or two out of Pronger for the cost of Sbisa (who is, at this point, a second pairing guy and nothing more) and four first round draft selections.

    While I wasn’t a fan of a lot of the deals made (Richards, Carter, Pronger, Bryz), I kept it to myself for the most part because I wasn’t upset with the team that came out of it. That being said Homer certainly isn’t infallible and will be on the hot seat until this team produces. Keep in mind that I fully understand that this team needs time, hence the two to three year window afforded to Homer. Still, this could all end up being a huge bust.
    I'm still not sure. On one hand, I think Simmonds is only going to get better and more polished in the goal-scoring department as he grows and develops (he's only 23/24) and Schenn is going to be an absolute force once he finishes maturing.

    Giroux is a legitimate top-3 forward in the NHL at this time -- there's simply no denying his otherworldly talent and his ability to create plays out of nothing. Moving Richards to allow Giroux to shine is something I can understand, but I don't know if I agree with it.

    If there is a move that Homer will go down for, I think it's the Bryz signing, nothing else. The reality is that Quick carried the Kings to the Cup. Richards and Carter were good, but not great (I think Richards had 0.75 ppg, right there with his career average for a post-season; Carter 0.6 ppg, with 3 of his 8 goals coming in a blowout). Without Quick, I think LA is done in the first or second round, which is what brings me back to the post-season.

    Too often, we're seeing the team that wins the Cup having a super-hot goaltender carry them to the Cup. While I'm well aware of Bryz's ability to get hot in a hurry, it just seems like we're asking way too much for him to sustain the high level of play for a prolonged period of time (16-20 games). If Homer had a fatal bad move, I'm beginning to think it was not giving Bob enough time to develop. But only time will tell.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    I'm still not sure. On one hand, I think Simmonds is only going to get better and more polished in the goal-scoring department as he grows and develops (he's only 23/24) and Schenn is going to be an absolute force once he finishes maturing.

    Giroux is a legitimate top-3 forward in the NHL at this time -- there's simply no denying his otherworldly talent and his ability to create plays out of nothing. Moving Richards to allow Giroux to shine is something I can understand, but I don't know if I agree with it.

    If there is a move that Homer will go down for, I think it's the Bryz signing, nothing else. The reality is that Quick carried the Kings to the Cup. Richards and Carter were good, but not great (I think Richards had 0.75 ppg, right there with his career average for a post-season; Carter 0.6 ppg, with 3 of his 8 goals coming in a blowout). Without Quick, I think LA is done in the first or second round, which is what brings me back to the post-season.

    Too often, we're seeing the team that wins the Cup having a super-hot goaltender carry them to the Cup. While I'm well aware of Bryz's ability to get hot in a hurry, it just seems like we're asking way too much for him to sustain the high level of play for a prolonged period of time (16-20 games). If Homer had a fatal bad move, I'm beginning to think it was not giving Bob enough time to develop. But only time will tell.
    goalies go up and down from year to year ... unless you have a marty b, or patrick roy ... you will see the same results ... even ryan miller had a down year last year (injuries aside)

    the pronger injury really set this team back

    this year is a complete pass for the organization, given that we missed on weber and suter

    next offseason + regular season is the make or break season to see if this rebuild was worth it ... the 2013/2014 season will be year 3 of the rebuild and 4 years removed from the cup ...

    right now, the Schenn sisters are underwhelming me

  9. #54
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    It's funny that we traded Carter and Richards, yet still managed to be second in all of hockey in goals per game last year and we're lamenting how good our team might be if we hadn't traded them. You can't say that getting those two guys didn't work out well for LA, but they also both have some long term deals so let's see how that plays out over the next five years. The fact is that combination just wasn't getting it done here. Would I have preferred to keep Richie at the time, yeah. Having Richards and G as our 1st and second centers would be a more ideal scenario. But at the same time Homer and Lavi saw something that they didnt' feel comfortable with moving forward. Richards seemed more like a mercurial Lindros at times.....they like the money and the winning ways you get from playing in a big market, but seem to bristle and be annoyed at having to deal with the publicity and media of being "The Man".

    What we appear to be lacking on the offense side has nothing to do with Carter and Richards, but more to do with Jagr's absense. And honestly it's perfectly legitimate to believe that what seemed like Simmonds and Hartnell finding their grooves and the expectation of a bounce back year from Brier would absorb Jagr's production.

    The irony of all this comes down to Timing...........if Giroux had preceded Richards and Carter and things had been heading towards it being "Giroux's Team" where those two could be the sidekicks instead of having the pressure to carry the team then the whole dynamic of the youth movement could probably have worked much better.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    It's funny that we traded Carter and Richards, yet still managed to be second in all of hockey in goals per game last year and we're lamenting how good our team might be if we hadn't traded them. You can't say that getting those two guys didn't work out well for LA, but they also both have some long term deals so let's see how that plays out over the next five years. The fact is that combination just wasn't getting it done here. Would I have preferred to keep Richie at the time, yeah. Having Richards and G as our 1st and second centers would be a more ideal scenario. But at the same time Homer and Lavi saw something that they didnt' feel comfortable with moving forward. Richards seemed more like a mercurial Lindros at times.....they like the money and the winning ways you get from playing in a big market, but seem to bristle and be annoyed at having to deal with the publicity and media of being "The Man".

    What we appear to be lacking on the offense side has nothing to do with Carter and Richards, but more to do with Jagr's absense. And honestly it's perfectly legitimate to believe that what seemed like Simmonds and Hartnell finding their grooves and the expectation of a bounce back year from Brier would absorb Jagr's production.

    The irony of all this comes down to Timing...........if Giroux had preceded Richards and Carter and things had been heading towards it being "Giroux's Team" where those two could be the sidekicks instead of having the pressure to carry the team then the whole dynamic of the youth movement could probably have worked much better.
    Can't deny the truth in a lot of that. I still wish we had Jagr instead of Rusty...I find it hard to believe that we couldn't come to some arrangement that would've made him happy...

    The other thing that I've been thinking about quite a bit was the Wade Redden opportunity that we let pass. I think he signed for $800k or something with the Blues. Would've been a smart move for us -- Redden (at the very least) is substantially better than Gervais (who I can't stand) and can actually run a second-unit PP and find the net with a shot from the point. Hindsight is 20-20, but the second I saw him become available I thought it would be a good pick-up.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Can't deny the truth in a lot of that. I still wish we had Jagr instead of Rusty...I find it hard to believe that we couldn't come to some arrangement that would've made him happy...

    The other thing that I've been thinking about quite a bit was the Wade Redden opportunity that we let pass. I think he signed for $800k or something with the Blues. Would've been a smart move for us -- Redden (at the very least) is substantially better than Gervais (who I can't stand) and can actually run a second-unit PP and find the net with a shot from the point. Hindsight is 20-20, but the second I saw him become available I thought it would be a good pick-up.
    I'd have taken Redden over Gervais, but you have to remember, when we signed Gervais, it was before the lockout and way before the CBA was signed. Hard to blame anyone for not having the foresight to see that 7 months later, the Rangers would have the right to not only cut Redden by way of amnesty, but be able to cut Redden literally immediately and he'd have been ready this year.

    Also, that said, Redden was awful in his debut. He took a penalty and had a give away that almost created a goal, as well as generally just didn't play well. First game back and all, but by all accounts, he looked bad.
    U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

    I'm a Chicago Cubs, Philadelphia Eagles, Philadelphia Flyers, and a University of Kentucky fan. You may be a Dallas Cowboys fan, a St. Louis Cardinals fan, a Pittsburgh Penguins fan or a Louisville Cardinals alumn. From June 12 - July 13, we are both American. Go, go, USA!

  12. #57
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    I realize that...just saying it's one of those little moves that we could've made after the new CBA.

    I've always been a fan of Dale Tallon -- he somehow manages a way to find low-cost, high-value players for his team. Kovalev? Great signing. Mueller? So far, so good.

    I've never been much for star signings, just because most teams end up overpaying. It's the guys that fly under the radar (like the Knuble signing -- I'm liking that so far) that really make the difference between a contender and a pretender.

    The only gripe I still have is the fact that we didn't sign a shoot-first guy. Read is starting to develop into that, but a veteran guy like Kovalev or a younger guy like Mueller would've been a nice, low-cost pick up to add some more scoring prowess.

  13. #58
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    i am more then concerned. we have the the worst farm system(fact), most undisciplined over the past several years, our GM signs big slow Dmen, he signs goons still, he overvalues players, and over pays for players.

    leighton, boucher, lilja, foster, walker, gervais, bringing back knuble, sesito, and carcillo. all awful awful moves.

    Honestly, if they keep this play up and look like they are going to miss the playoffs....i would make every player on the team available except for giroux, read, simmonds, and couturier.

  14. #59
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    If you're throwing the Schenn Brothers to the wolves, why are you keeping Read? Just asking...

    We have the worst farm system because (1) we traded 4 or so first round picks for Pronger and (2) we have something like 7 guys on our roster who were there (or traded for a former farm system prospect)...we're developing quality players. Nothing wrong with that.

    I agree with the Leighton/Boucher, Lilja/Foster/Walker moves. Carcillo was good at what he did, little else. Once he got a reputation, we sent him packing. Nothing wrong there. Sestito is a fourth line enforcer, nothing more. You need one. If I were to complain about a thug move, it'd be Shelley, not Sestito. Knuble is a low-risk, high-reward signing to replace Hartnell. I doubt he would've been signed if Hartnell wouldn't have gotten hurt. Can't blame the GM for a freak injury.

    If you want to level a criticism of homer, it's this: (1) we still don't have a top-6 forward who is a shoot-first type player. We have lots of playmakers and lots of quality two-way centers. We don't have the guy that takes those passes and turns them into goals. (2) We don't have a back-up net minder who can actually do something other than convert oxygen into carbon dioxide. and (3) we still struggle on the back end to find another Timonen-like defender who can move the puck up ice.

  15. #60
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    read is producing and i know its still early for the schenn's but they really havent in their young careers.

    we are young but we have the worse defense and no prospects to bring up or trade to upgrade that. if you want to nit pick i can go on for days about not just homer but our scouts and snyder just management in whole.

    they have a mindset that is played out.

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