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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldStyleCubbies View Post
    The dude hasn't watched a game... he sees his completion % and INTs and assumes he's Mark Sanchez.
    People who want to argue that wins=QB performance, as Luck supporters seem to be doing, need to deal with the notion that poor QBs sometimes rack up a lot of wins. The comparison is made to challenge the form of your argument. Btw, it's exactly the same argument 9ers fans made that Alex Smith was a great QB, and that might be a bit closer comparison.

    For the record, I don't dislike Luck, and I see him doing pretty well in the future. He had little to work with, and showed he has potential to lead a franchize even in relatively hard times.
    I'm going to list ALEC in credits as associate producer of creating horrifying things for us to talk about -John Oliver

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldStyleCubbies View Post
    So going forward, you would rather have Russell Wilson than Andrew Luck and it's not even close for you? Serious question.
    If you can't answer that question by the way I am posting you haven't been paying attention. The answer is a clear and emphatic YES, and anyone who watched both QB's play objectively would come to the same conclusion.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    There has been plenty said to prove you are wrong. The problem is your rose colored glasses are clouding your view. Luck is the best QB out of the three. Better than Wilson and better than RG3. He did more with less which you don't seem to take into any account. Played the season with a massive chunk of the salary cap tied up in dead space due to the release of a ton of players from the Colts. The team has a ton of cap space that they have to use to just reach the floor this off-season. This years Colts team will be the least talented team Luck plays on in his career here in Indy. Luck will be much look much improved next season with a competent supporting cast. Wilson will fall back to earth some as other teams have a full year of tape to scheme against him. And RG3 may not play at all next year putting him two years behind in development. Being he did not run a pro style offense in Washington. By the time he is back from his injury the pistol style offense will be about as effective as the Wildcat. There is a reason gimmick offenses never last more than one season. But beyond that nothing anyone can say here is going to change your mind so what is the point of even trying?
    That statement can be contested. The cap space and all that crap has nothing to do with how players performed on the field. Reggie Wayne was a top 5 WR this year and there are other targets that are underrated by your entire fanbase. I seriously can't understany why Colts fan want to under-rate their entire team just so they can have a shiny QB in their minds. Especially since that feeling is only in your minds. You have a stronger team than you are letting on here. That team we saw last year was NOT a 2 win team, it was a 2 win team with Curtis Painter. How many times did you guys think the Colts where mailing it in last year for Luck anyways again?

    RG3 could come back stronger (thought the all things are pointing that he wont, Wilson has shown nothing to say he will regress, that is a silly presumption by you), and Luck has shown brilliances in the 4th quarter while looking like a hack the other 3 quarters. Again, Luck can figure it out, but I don't think he will.

    Really, the only thing you can hang your hat on that Luck deserves the ROY is that he improved on last years teams win. That is the ONLY thing you can say Luck was a clear favor for. The extra yards means nothing when you have to throw the ball more than 200 times to get it.

  4. #79
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    Honestly, people who are on here saying that Russell Wilson should be penalized because he has a great team just make zero sense. Do you actually realize that the Hawks defense has blown 4 4th quarter comebacks by Wilson? That equated to 3 losses (the other was the Bears game where he had to do it AGAIN to win). One of those losses was the heartbreaking loss to the Falcons that the defense crapped their pants in the last 30 seconds. The Hawks final record during the season would have been 13-3 if we won those games.

    Honestly though, after the Falcons game, what does Russell Wilson have to do to show you people that he is legit? Does he need to grow wings and fly over everyone to score TD's?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    How many more times did Luck throw the ball compared to Sanchez, thanks for playing though.
    Sir, are you positive you read that entire post? I certainly don't think so, considering the only thing you could respond with is something that I already said.

    I realize in many more attempts, but Luck did this with Y.T Hilton (3rd round rookie), Reggie Wayne (Played fantastic), and Donnie Avery (decent) as his targets on the outside. His RBs were Donald Brown (Injuried part of the season, nothing special) and Vick Ballard (5th round rookie).
    Now.."Thanks for playing though"

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbrook36 View Post
    Sir, are you positive you read that entire post? I certainly don't think so, considering the only thing you could respond with is something that I already said.



    Now.."Thanks for playing though"
    Draft positions means nothing. 3rd and 5th roudn talents can become pro-bowlers. The good teams all have late round draft picks that are starting for them and playing well. It's rather annoying to me that a Colts fan would sell their entire team short just so they can have a shiny looking QB. When in reality, their team looked a lot more shinier than they are leading on and their QB's has a lot more work than has shown. It's not a bad thing to swing and miss on a QB (though even I know its too early to even be thinking about it), it's just a bad idea to keep that miss lingering on like the Jets did with Sanchez.

  7. #82
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    What's your excuse going to be when Luck finishes higher than Wilson in the voting? Let me guess something along the lines of "he's a media darling, blah blah blah." Not that he actually had a better season. It's funny you say the Colts swung and missed with Luck when every expert would take him over the guy you are claiming to have supernatural abilities in Wilson. The fact that you think Luck looks like anything other than a future star in this league after what he showed this year is preposterous.
    Last edited by OldStyleCubbies; 01-24-2013 at 05:41 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldStyleCubbies View Post
    What's your excuse going to be when Luck finishes higher than Wilson in the voting? Let me guess something along the lines of "he's a media darling, blah blah blah." Not that he actually had a better season. It's funny you say the Colts swung and missed with Luck when every expert would take him over the guy you are claiming to have supernatural abilities in Wilson. The fact that you think Luck looks like anything other than a future star in this league after what he showed this year is preposterous.
    Has he finished higher than Wilson? You know the results don't come out for a couple more weeks right? Thats great for those "experts" but I do have eyes of my own and a brain I like to use myself. Those "experts" opionions mean as much as your opinion and as much as mine. If he does finish higher, than oh well, I won't lose any sleep, but I don't see it happening. Especially since most of the pundits out there are taking picking Wilson as the runner up. The Luck for ROY camp has been drying up quickly as RG3 and RW put up numbers that Luck hasn't even come close to. Also, there are 2 super rookie QB's in this draft class, too bad one took a major injury blow and I hope he can come back from it.

    BTW, I am officially wrong about my oringinal stance on RG3. I used to think he was more Vince Young than Steve Young, but now I know he closer to the ladder. Lets hope he comes back just as good the next couple of years.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    Draft positions means nothing. 3rd and 5th roudn talents can become pro-bowlers. The good teams all have late round draft picks that are starting for them and playing well. It's rather annoying to me that a Colts fan would sell their entire team short just so they can have a shiny looking QB. When in reality, their team looked a lot more shinier than they are leading on and their QB's has a lot more work than has shown. It's not a bad thing to swing and miss on a QB (though even I know its too early to even be thinking about it), it's just a bad idea to keep that miss lingering on like the Jets did with Sanchez.
    This can be case, but in their rookie seasons they didn't become pro-bowlers, thus that argument is non-existent. Reggie Wayne was fantastic this season, he worked really well at all positions (Flex, Slot, SE). Colts fans are just at the reality that without Manning the team fell into a complete mess, they let loose some of the older players on the team, and started to rebuild with life after Manning with Luck. At what point did they bring in loads of talent to surround him? Never. He had a sub-par offense around him, including the offensive line. When do you plan to sit down and discuss the "shiny" parts of this Colts offense?

    The comparison to Mark Sanchez is once again complete nonsense, it's just a blind hate towards Luck.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbrook36 View Post
    This can be case, but in their rookie seasons they didn't become pro-bowlers, thus that argument is non-existent. Reggie Wayne was fantastic this season, he worked really well at all positions (Flex, Slot, SE). Colts fans are just at the reality that without Manning the team fell into a complete mess, they let loose some of the older players on the team, and started to rebuild with life after Manning with Luck. At what point did they bring in loads of talent to surround him? Never. He had a sub-par offense around him, including the offensive line. When do you plan to sit down and discuss the "shiny" parts of this Colts offense?

    The comparison to Mark Sanchez is once again complete nonsense, it's just a blind hate towards Luck.
    Blind hate because he gets more pub than his boy Russ.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldStyleCubbies View Post
    Blind hate because he gets more pub than his boy Russ.
    Uhm, no. I could care less if Luck gets all the pub in the world. He still needs to show it on the field. He has shown in in quarter 4, but 1-3 seems to be his problem.

    Serious, is this the best you Colts fan can do? Just sling blind accusation?

    Do you honestly think Luck had a better season than RG3 or RW? I'm not asking you who has the better team, because that is a stupid question. The question is, do you think that Luck had a better season than those 2?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbrook36 View Post
    This can be case, but in their rookie seasons they didn't become pro-bowlers, thus that argument is non-existent. Reggie Wayne was fantastic this season, he worked really well at all positions (Flex, Slot, SE). Colts fans are just at the reality that without Manning the team fell into a complete mess, they let loose some of the older players on the team, and started to rebuild with life after Manning with Luck. At what point did they bring in loads of talent to surround him? Never. He had a sub-par offense around him, including the offensive line. When do you plan to sit down and discuss the "shiny" parts of this Colts offense?

    The comparison to Mark Sanchez is once again complete nonsense, it's just a blind hate towards Luck.
    Ok, the Colts had some one of the one of the better passing attacks in the league when it came to YPG. Luck has to be throwing to someone to get all those yards when its not the defender. Wayne caught a ton of them as someone mentioned earlier (could have been you). Vick Ballard carried the ball at almost 4 YPC (3.9 to be exact) and so did your other rookie RB Donaly Brown. And according to what a lot of you Colts fan are posting, that was done with a horrible line, that is definately something to build upon. Your team still managed to rush for over 100 YPG, while that's not elite, its definately enough for the other team to have to respect so Luck has a play action to work with.

    Luck threw for 4374 yards and 1355 of those went to Wayne (a fist ballot HOF in my book and I'd like to see you guys argue against that, and I don't see why I have to defend your players here). That means almost 3000 yards went to others. Well half of those went to Donald Avery and TY Hilton (a rookie mind you). Do you really want to start comparing talent across the board here? Because the top 3 targets that Luck was throwing EACH had more yards than the top target of RW AND RG3.

    While your team had a much weaker defense than the other two teams, you still have playmakers on that side of the ball too. You had a rookie LB lead your team in tackles and had 145 dude. He wasn't a slouch out there.

    Seriously, why is it up to me to have to defend your team? You Colts fans are on here crying that Luck was the only player on your team, well, I just named 5 other offensive dudes who was a big factor in your team. Your team was not a 2-14 team that the record showed last year and you all know it. You know that running Curtis Painter out there last year was nothing more than the suck for Luck campaign in practice.

    Now seriously. Take a step back and look at the how each of these players played this year. Can you honestly sit here and tell me that Luck deserves the ROY over RG3 AND RW?
    Last edited by kpak76; 01-24-2013 at 09:39 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westbrook36 View Post
    Sir, are you positive you read that entire post? I certainly don't think so, considering the only thing you could respond with is something that I already said.



    Now.."Thanks for playing though"
    And I just realized your probably and Eagles fan. Come on dude, I know RG3 tore you guys up, but you have to realize that he is the hands down favorite when it comes to ROY, and at best Luck is #3.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    If you can't answer that question by the way I am posting you haven't been paying attention. The answer is a clear and emphatic YES, and anyone who watched both QB's play objectively would come to the same conclusion.
    On Mike and Mike this morning, Greeny asked Ron Jaworski, Herm Edwards and Brian Dawkins who they would pick of the QBs from last 2 drafts. Between Newton, Dalton, Kaepernick, Luck, RG3 and Wilson, all three (Jaworski, Edwards, Dawkins) picked Luck as the best overall prospect.

    So it seems pretty clear that those who do this for a living completely disagree with you. That is unless you think you know better than those 3.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    That statement can be contested. The cap space and all that crap has nothing to do with how players performed on the field. Reggie Wayne was a top 5 WR this year and there are other targets that are underrated by your entire fanbase. I seriously can't understany why Colts fan want to under-rate their entire team just so they can have a shiny QB in their minds. Especially since that feeling is only in your minds. You have a stronger team than you are letting on here. That team we saw last year was NOT a 2 win team, it was a 2 win team with Curtis Painter. How many times did you guys think the Colts where mailing it in last year for Luck anyways again?
    It does when you factor in the caliber of players the Colts where able to bring in. They had to go through the recycle bin of players to fill out the roster. The other targets outside of Wayne led the league 1 and 2 in dropped passes to go along with the #1 spot for dropped passes by a RB. You want point to completion percentage as a holy grail of why RG3 is a God but refuse to put any context with it. That isn't underrating the team its just being honest about what they had to work with. That strong team was over half rookies and first year players again context matters. They got better as the season went on but again half the roster was first year players or rookies so of course they are going to get better. Painter was never qualified to do more than hold the clip board every Colt fan will admit that. Once it got down toward the end I was happy he was in because it was a pretty much given that they would lose.


    RG3 could come back stronger (thought the all things are pointing that he wont, Wilson has shown nothing to say he will regress, that is a silly presumption by you), and Luck has shown brilliances in the 4th quarter while looking like a hack the other 3 quarters. Again, Luck can figure it out, but I don't think he will.

    Really, the only thing you can hang your hat on that Luck deserves the ROY is that he improved on last years teams win. That is the ONLY thing you can say Luck was a clear favor for. The extra yards means nothing when you have to throw the ball more than 200 times to get it.
    I honestly hope RG3 recovers and is as strong as he was. I wish no ill will toward him just think that he will be way behind by the time he gets back to playing. The option offense will be about as effective as the wildcat by then. All NFL teams will have plenty of time to scheme against it that is why gimmick offenses never last for more than 1 season. You are either the smartest man when it comes to NFL QB's in the world or are dead wrong. When all of the talking heads agree that Luck is the strongest prospect to come out since Elway or maybe Manning I tend to fall on the side of you just being wrong and a homer for the team of an opposing QB.

    No I can hang my hat on the fact that Luck did far more with far less than RG3 or Wilson and no that is not debatable. Who was Luck's Morris or Lynch? What Vick Ballard? Oh wait that's right even RG3 himself rushed for more yards than the Colts starting RB. Luck was 4th in amount of times sacked Wilson 12th RG3 14th. Luck was the 2nd most hit qb, RG3 12th, Wilson 28th. But no your right Luck obviously had the better team around him. That RG3 and Wilson would have done a much better job of not getting killed behind a putrid O-Line. They would have somehow ran out and caught the passes that Luck's receivers led the league in dropping.

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