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  1. #46
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    I agree RGIII based on regular season probably deserves it.

    Luck has shown a lot of raw potential, but he also makes a lot of errors he needs to correct.

    Im worried we may never see RGIII play at this level again though, I think a knee injury like that doesnt come back 100% most times.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    So its a negative on these guys because they have Offensive Coordinators who like to run the ball as well as pass instead of throwing the ball a billion times?
    No, it makes that team a better team and team with a better offense.

    Just as many people have praised Adrian Peterson for running all over defenses that knew Ponder wasn't throwing, you have to give Luck praise for throwing on defenses that knew that the Colts weren't running the ball on them. So yes Luck threw the ball more than RW or RGIII, he had to, and the fact he was able to amass so many yards and TDs while defenses knew he was throwing the ball is very impressive, just as it was impressive for AP to go against defenses that knew he was running.

    I think RW or Luck should get it. RW ran around to extend the plays to make throws, ran for yards when he had to and ran smart when he did run for yards. Luck beat defenses that knew he was the key to the Colts winning the game. RGIII played well, but had Alfred Morris taking most of the load on offense. When he ran, he ran in dumb/dangerous ways and as a result has been injured more than Vick and sustained a more serious injury than Vick.

    Kaep and Newton run for yards and put themselves in dangerous/dumb positions to take hits sometimes but they are also both pretty big guys and IMO still try to reduce their exposure much more than RGIII. RGIII is looking like Vick number two, although he has already sustained a worse injury than Vick and he is smaller than Vick. It will be hard for RGIII to get away from tacklers and dangerous situations with his knee now being reconstructed a second time.

    I also don't understand the hate for Luck, the lack of faith in RW, and the praise for RGIII.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggin View Post
    no way...should TOTALLY go to Andrew Luck. Look at the change in record for the Colts. Look at his numbers compared to RG3. Luck broke rookie records for goodness sake and didn't miss any time under center do to injury like RG3.

    If RG3 wins ROTY, its based on the feel good story, not on the first year numbers or accomplishments.
    u might wanna go check the #'s

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    Again, Luck is the most over-rated rookie QB in this class. Nothing about him is overwhelming other than a 9 win turnaround.

    Luck couldn't even sniff RG3's or RW's jock strap he is so far off from them.
    You mad, bro? Luck is better than Wilson you're right it's not close.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    People need to stop looking at total yards and think that makes a QB. It doesn't, there are plenty of red flags with Lucks "tremendous" season. Out of the 3 "great" Qb's Luck has the biggest potential for being Mark Sanchez, a bust.
    Luck is the most likely to be a bust between the 3 rookie QB's?! You are crazy and one of the few people in the entire world to believe that. He is by faaaaaar the least likely to be a bust. Get over it.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    A)Why not, because he is ESPN's golden boy for QB's? Both had similar numbers in their rookie seasons. Both lead a team to the playoffs. Luck still can turn it around, but you forget how high people where of Sanchez when he took the Jets to back to back AFC championship games. If Luck can't improve on his decision making and his accuracy the life of Sanchez is exactly where he is heading.

    B)I did, and he made no sense by even mentioning Manning when we are talking ROY. We are not talking about ROY when Manning was a rookie here.

    C)Yes I am dead serious. a 54.1% completion rate, an almost 1 to 1 TD/Int ration, YPA at 6.98 yards, having to lead come backs time and time again because he left his team in the hole, and a 76.5 passer rating all tell me is no where near the class of the other 2. Tell me, other than improving on wins, what has Luck done that the others have not done better, and by a WIDE margin.

    And Kaep also is having a much better year than Luck also. He is going to the superbowl while the others are sitting at home right now.
    Luck is considered the best QB prospect since Elway. Sanchez wasn't close to being that highly regarded, he wasn't asked to do the kind of things Luck did this year and he was on a team with a great defense, but ya nice comparison. And the rest of your argument doesn't take into account the OL Luck had in front of him as he was pressured on pretty much every play.
    Last edited by OldStyleCubbies; 01-23-2013 at 06:48 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    People need to stop looking at total yards and think that makes a QB. It doesn't, there are plenty of red flags with Lucks "tremendous" season. Out of the 3 "great" Qb's Luck has the biggest potential for being Mark Sanchez, a bust.
    You quite obviously never watched a single game the Colts played to make such an ignorant statement. With RG3 having his same ACL rebuilt AGAIN. He is by far the biggest threat to flame out of the three not Luck. Luck by a LONG shot had by far the least amount of talent around him starting the season and did the most out of them all with what he had. If you watched the games you would have noticed the fact that both RG3 and Wilson had very potent rushing attacks (ranked 2nd and 3rd) besides their own abilities (RG3 rushed for more yards than the Colts RB) Luck did not. Far more was thrust on Luck's shoulders to carry the team without the ground game to rely upon.

    Your comment about total yards could also be used with completion percentage. The stat that fans of RG3 love to tout. All completed passes are not the same and dinks and dunks count the same as passes for 15+ yards. Never mind that Luck was 3rd in the league for % of passes over 15 yards. Or the fact that two of his receivers top the league in drops. To say that Luck is anywhere close to Sanchez I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't watch a single game Luck played in.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  8. #53
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    The dude hasn't watched a game... he sees his completion % and INTs and assumes he's Mark Sanchez.

  9. #54
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    Wilson got robbed

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    C)Yes I am dead serious. a 54.1% completion rate, an almost 1 to 1 TD/Int ration, YPA at 6.98 yards, having to lead come backs time and time again because he left his team in the hole, and a 76.5 passer rating all tell me is no where near the class of the other 2. Tell me, other than improving on wins, what has Luck done that the others have not done better, and by a WIDE margin.
    And I bet you think its all Manning's fault that the Bronco's lost. That it is his fault that his secondary got beaten badly. Just like its all Luck's fault that he had to lead all of those comeback's. That the Colt defense shares none of the blame. That them ranking 30th in takeaways versus the Redskins and Seahawks being ranked 6th and 7th have nothing to do with it. Passer rating is a worthless stat and has been since the invent of the dink and dunk pass game.

    What has he done? He has taken a noticeably less talented team to the largest improvement in wins. Without having a prolific rushing attack to aid him. You trade Morris's rushing yards for Ballard's and the Skins are not even mentioned as being a playoff team. Teams didn't have to scheme against Ballard running the ball like they did with Morris. Luck was the sole focus of the offense for the opposing D. That just isn't the case for any other QB your talking about here. That is what he did better and by a wide margin. Though I am certain none of this matters to you.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    So because we aren't ready to anoint him Gabbert status it's hate, do you seriously think the Colts would have that many less wins with RG3 or Wilson?
    Honestly yes I do think the Colts would have had less wins with RG3 and Wilson. Both of them would have been murdered behind the Colts O-Line and lack of run game. There is a reason Luck was hit the most of any QB in the league last season. Neither of them would be running nearly as effective as they were towards the end of the season.

    Edit.

    Though thinking about it Wilson would potentially do OK behind the Colts O-line. RG3 would have gotten injured far quicker than he did playing for the Colts. No chance the Colts are a playoff team last season with RG3.
    Last edited by hoosiercubsfan; 01-23-2013 at 06:37 PM.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiants5518 View Post
    The Andrew Luck hate in this forum seriously baffles my mind. Dude hasn't done anything to warrant the hate.
    Except put up mediocre numbers and the Luck appologist are on here trying to sell his performance as elite. Aint buyint it.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    A)Why not, because he is ESPN's golden boy for QB's? Both had similar numbers in their rookie seasons. Both lead a team to the playoffs. Luck still can turn it around, but you forget how high people where of Sanchez when he took the Jets to back to back AFC championship games. If Luck can't improve on his decision making and his accuracy the life of Sanchez is exactly where he is heading.

    B)I did, and he made no sense by even mentioning Manning when we are talking ROY. We are not talking about ROY when Manning was a rookie here.

    C)Yes I am dead serious. a 54.1% completion rate, an almost 1 to 1 TD/Int ration, YPA at 6.98 yards, having to lead come backs time and time again because he left his team in the hole, and a 76.5 passer rating all tell me is no where near the class of the other 2. Tell me, other than improving on wins, what has Luck done that the others have not done better, and by a WIDE margin.

    And Kaep also is having a much better year than Luck also. He is going to the superbowl while the others are sitting at home right now.
    Similar numbers? Mark Sanchez had 2444 passing yards with 12 touchdowns and 20 interceptions, while Andrew Luck had 4374 passing yards (Almost 2,000 more if you can't do the math). Although they did have similar completion percentages at 53.8 vs 54.1. I realize in many more attempts, but Luck did this with Y.T Hilton (3rd round rookie), Reggie Wayne (Played fantastic), and Donnie Avery (decent) as his targets on the outside. His RBs were Donald Brown (Injuried part of the season, nothing special) and Vick Ballard (5th round rookie). His offensive line is sub-par and he did lead his team to 7 comeback wins, but as you've stated in various post, "Due to Luck they had to come back from behind." It has nothing to do with the amount of talent, or lack of, on the defensive side of the ball or the offensive side around the ball that creates the hole where Luck drives them to come back. Sanchez at the time had a great offensive line and they were a much more of a ground and pound team (Thomas Jones 1,400 yards), although his targets weren't the greatest either.

    Completely different offense when you compare RGIII and Luck as well.

    I'm not even saying who deserves ROY, because I quite frankly don't care.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    Except put up mediocre numbers and the Luck appologist are on here trying to sell his performance as elite. Aint buyint it.
    "stats are like bikinis.. nice to look at but don't tell the whole story."

    Watching Colts games would enable you to see why/how Luck's cmp % was low.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by baazinakon View Post
    No, it makes that team a better team and team with a better offense.

    Just as many people have praised Adrian Peterson for running all over defenses that knew Ponder wasn't throwing, you have to give Luck praise for throwing on defenses that knew that the Colts weren't running the ball on them. So yes Luck threw the ball more than RW or RGIII, he had to, and the fact he was able to amass so many yards and TDs while defenses knew he was throwing the ball is very impressive, just as it was impressive for AP to go against defenses that knew he was running.

    I think RW or Luck should get it. RW ran around to extend the plays to make throws, ran for yards when he had to and ran smart when he did run for yards. Luck beat defenses that knew he was the key to the Colts winning the game. RGIII played well, but had Alfred Morris taking most of the load on offense. When he ran, he ran in dumb/dangerous ways and as a result has been injured more than Vick and sustained a more serious injury than Vick.

    Kaep and Newton run for yards and put themselves in dangerous/dumb positions to take hits sometimes but they are also both pretty big guys and IMO still try to reduce their exposure much more than RGIII. RGIII is looking like Vick number two, although he has already sustained a worse injury than Vick and he is smaller than Vick. It will be hard for RGIII to get away from tacklers and dangerous situations with his knee now being reconstructed a second time.

    I also don't understand the hate for Luck, the lack of faith in RW, and the praise for RGIII.
    Ok, how about this then. Luck will never get as far as Wilson did until he is surrounded by a better team. People trying to take away from RG3's and RW's success because they have a superior team baffles me. Luck needs as good of a team RW is playing with to be successful. Any player in the NFL does. A good team makes a player look that much better. But you need good players to have a good team. It's not Lucks, RG'3s fault that Luck had less talent to play with (and that is hotly debateale, the Colts talent was not as bad as a 2-14 record said they where last year), but to penalize the others because they don't have stupid GM's is ludicrous.

    It's also hard to argue against completion percentage being the measure of a QB's accuracy.
    Last edited by kpak76; 01-23-2013 at 07:08 PM.

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