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  1. #76
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    I too was against the Grabo money, not the signing. He and Lupul are good-not great players. To think someone in here was trying to convince me that Lupul after a good 66 games is a ppg player.

    If Nonis is convinced that he will be healthy for the term of the contract plus this year, great. If he wanted to give him the ntc, great. But then he should have given him a contract for 5yrs/20-22mil.

  2. #77
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    I wouldn't have went with as much term...I would have offered a 3-4 year deal because I don't think Lupul will still be useful when the Leafs are competitive...his injury history and age will be the factors for this...at least on a 3 year deal, the Leafs could move him at the trade deadline in 2-3 years and if he plays well, they could get a decent haul in return that could speed up the rebuild even more.

  3. #78
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    ^I don't disagree. What I was trying to point out was that not only did he get dollars, he got term, and a ntc. I don't understand how he was in any position of leverage to command all three.

    Think Leafs brass need to take a course with AA to learn how to stand firm and how to leverage (long term stability vs. short term gain). Bautista was coming off one great/astronomical season, he got term but not the dollars he could've asked for. Edwin, the same thing. That's how one negotiates, you give on one, you get on another.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIUMPHATOR View Post
    I too was against the Grabo money, not the signing. He and Lupul are good-not great players. To think someone in here was trying to convince me that Lupul after a good 66 games is a ppg player.

    If Nonis is convinced that he will be healthy for the term of the contract plus this year, great. If he wanted to give him the ntc, great. But then he should have given him a contract for 5yrs/20-22mil.
    That's not how it works anymore... I don't get what's so hard to grasp here. Lupul was a PPG player last year. Travis Zajac was hurt ALL of last year and is earning more money at 5.75 million dollars per year then Lupul at 5.2.

    It's not about before. It's about NOW. And last year and hopefully the future Nonis sees Lupul as a PPG player. Shane Doan for god's sake is being paid just about the same as Lupul and he's 37 years old. So I don't get why it's so surprising here. It's how the NHL works.

    You think Shane Doan, Travis Zajac are worth 5 million plus? No. But that's what they are being paid so Lupul signing for that much is not surprising nor is it bad. He would have gotten more in free agency GUARANTEED.
    Last edited by LuckyLuke2; 01-21-2013 at 03:55 PM.


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  5. #80
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    Now in saying that I agree with the Grabovski points you raised. Not a good contract but not a bad signing.


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  6. #81
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    The price seems about right considering Grabovski got around the same amount.

  7. #82
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLuke2 View Post
    That's not how it works anymore... I don't get what's so hard to grasp here. Lupul was a PPG player last year. Travis Zajac was hurt ALL of last year and is earning more money at 5.75 million dollars per year then Lupul at 5.2.

    It's not about before. It's about NOW. And last year and hopefully the future Nonis sees Lupul as a PPG player. Shane Doan for god's sake is being paid just about the same as Lupul and he's 37 years old. So I don't get why it's so surprising here. It's how the NHL works.

    You think Shane Doan, Travis Zajac are worth 5 million plus? No. But that's what they are being paid so Lupul signing for that much is not surprising nor is it bad. He would have gotten more in free agency GUARANTEED.
    I don't think you are grasping his point at all...sure he was a PPG player last year, but since the 2007 season he has only played in more than 70 games once. Is it a smart move signing a guy to a 5 year contract with all his injuries in the past? It's a huge risk throwing that kind of money and term to a player who has had one good year since the 2008-09 season. I get it that he averaged a PPG last year, but is the raise and term warranted because of one year? I personally think it's contracts like this that are driving the price of players to an amount well above their true value. This just set Kessel up for a $6.5 - $7.0 payout.

    Remember when Jason Blake had a career year with 40 goals. The Leafs rewarded him with a significant UFA contract and we all know how that worked out. I'm not a fan of players getting huge raises/term based on 1 season. The Leafs have been burned with bad contracts recently (Connolly, Komi, Grabs to name a few) and you think they would have learned.

  8. #83
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jays Claw View Post
    The price seems about right considering Grabovski got around the same amount.
    The price is high because of where the Leafs set the bar with Grabs

  9. #84
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    Cost of players goes up because of free agency. If grabos contract had a direct effect on the price of Lupuls contract, he'd have cashed in more than 5.5. 5.25 now is better than if puts up another season like last year and cashes in 6+.

  10. #85
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    [QUOTE=TravisB;25169233]Cost of players goes up because of free agency. If grabos contract had a direct effect on the price of Lupuls contract, he'd have cashed in more than 5.5. 5.25 now is better than if puts up another season like last year and cashes in 6+.[/QUOTE]

    But what happens if he regresses back to 50 points per season? Is that $5.5 worth it for the next 5 seasons? That's a big risk if you ask me.

  11. #86
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    I feel like only Lavy and myself actually grasp this system and how to allocate money properly.

    Great point on his part (I tend to be optimistic), what if he regresses? I would have an easy time accepting a better contract with more substance to his career.

    What's being lost on some of you is that I/we like the player but not the ease of the contract rewarded to him.

  12. #87
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    Now go read this and tell me what is wrong with the logic.

    http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/1/20/toro...for-five-years

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIUMPHATOR View Post
    I feel like only Lavy and myself actually grasp this system and how to allocate money properly.

    Great point on his part (I tend to be optimistic), what if he regresses? I would have an easy time accepting a better contract with more substance to his career.

    What's being lost on some of you is that I/we like the player but not the ease of the contract rewarded to him.
    Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't have an understanding on how money is allocated, or how to do it properly. The questions asked could be asked about every single player in the league. A vague statement, sure, bit it's true. This is a high risk, high reward contract. Lupul has been outstanding since coming over and there's no proof you can provide to show otherwise during his time as a Leaf. Top 6 forwards make good coin, that's the reality of the league. In the grand scheme of things, Lupuls contract won't hinder the team. $5 million when the cap is $65 million is a risk worth taking for a guy who's been a first line winger since coming here. 7% of the cap on a first line winger is a deal, if he continues to progress. How much is Lupul honestly worth?

  14. #89
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    His injury history is only a factor because of how many games hes lost, but the majority of time missed was from an infection from surgery. If your fitness level is where it should be and you maintain yourself injuries can be a minimal factor; case in point, Gary Roberts. Obviously Lupul is doing something right for them to take that 5 year chance. The chemistry our top line has now can't be ignored, it can't be a coincidence that both players had career seasons last year and have averaged a PPG since playing together. I read the article already, there are valid points but at the same time, your looking stats from a team that wasn't held defensively accountable under Ron Wilson, you can't pin poor defensive play against one or two guys. The team collectively failed at that and our goaltending was horrendous. So yeah, defensive stats were poor, everyone's were. Offensively, lupul has shined and so has Kessel because of it. If having Lupul on the ice helps put points on the board and gives Kessel the opportunity to play with someone who'll drive to the net, get open or can feed him passes what's te big deal? I guarantee if Lupul puts up even close to a PPG again this season, we got him at a decent price because if Nonis waited till the summer there may be a chance he could have commanded more and we would have lost him for nothing.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't have an understanding on how money is allocated, or how to do it properly. The questions asked could be asked about every single player in the league. A vague statement, sure, bit it's true. This is a high risk, high reward contract. Lupul has been outstanding since coming over and there's no proof you can provide to show otherwise during his time as a Leaf. Top 6 forwards make good coin, that's the reality of the league. In the grand scheme of things, Lupuls contract won't hinder the team. $5 million when the cap is $65 million is a risk worth taking for a guy who's been a first line winger since coming here. 7% of the cap on a first line winger is a deal, if he continues to progress. How much is Lupul honestly worth?
    High risk, high reward? The leafs gave him market value for one good year in which he only played 66 games.

    More like high risk, even reward. They paid him as if there is a history of production. There is reason to give him; a) the money, b) the term, c) the ntc to fluff the package. No way you give him all three.

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