Yep. And even that by itself isn't great because you can create runs without hitting a bunch of HR.
Just misinformed and ignorant.
I have to admit i love the fact that a "What happened to Jorge Cantu" thread turned into another argument about traditional stats versus sabermetrics.
Yeah, my fault. I was planning on including the saber stats that tell he was not that good ever, but I was on my phone and was lazy, and left it at that..
Do you see what you did?
2010, 2012, and 2014 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Last edited by metswon69; 01-21-2013 at 04:37 PM.
If a players hits very often go for extra base hits and he has a high average, chances are he's going to be hitting for quite a few extra base hits.
My point was for a hitter you don't want to have just avg or obp or power, you really need all 3 to become a complete hitter.
And for the last time, i'm not even mentioning wOBA so quit bringing it up.
Guys with high on base averages make less outs.
Also a walk makes a pitcher throw additional pitches allowing you to get further through the order and make that pitcher not last as long.
wOBA tells you this much more clearly.If a players hits very often go for extra base hits and he has a high average, chances are he's going to be hitting for quite a few extra base hits.
Well of course.My point was for a hitter you don't want to have just avg or obp or power, you really need all 3 to become a complete hitter.
As for Dunn's OBP skills.
OBP is directly influenced by a hitters ability to hit for extra base power and their patience. It's two-fold. Being very patient will allow you to naturally draw more walks and more strike outs. The Ben Zobrist's of the world that don't carry a ton of power, or 30 or 40 home run power are so patient that they will work walks all on their own. But they still need to do other things to make these walks happen. You can't be a really bad hitter and just draw walks and create value. Albert Pujols' regression and decline the last few years is from him being less patient and chasing more pitches outside of the strike zone. You'd have to ask him directly why he was doing this, but he started to chase pitches he had never chased before. The rest of his game remained the same.
The other part is being a high power hitter makes pitchers work around you. With Dunn. His power was zapped. A lack of bat speed mainly. So pitchers were no longer afraid to attack him by simply throwing strikes. When a guy has the ability to drive himself in at any point in the game because he has consistent 40 home run power, pitchers will begin to throw pitches out of the zone more hoping he will chase and settling with a walk if it happens. It's what made Bonds' walk rate sky-rocket to record breaking totals.
You can expect to see Giancarlo Stanton's walk rate improve this season. He is going to get less pitches to hit as the season progresses and his power sustains. Which will cause an increase in his OBP and his Slugging will remain high. If his power falls down, then his walk rate will too since he isn't necessarily a very patient hitter on his own.
So high walk rates are driven by two things. Having the power that pitchers fear you, and being so patient that you just work them. You won't draw walks though if you are a bad hitter. Pitchers will attack you and go after you, especially if they realize you are slumping. So until you show you can beat them again, you won't be getting walked unless it's completely accidental. Ben Zobrist keeps a high walk rate because he crushes doubles and does other things. If he stops hitting, his walk rate will drop. But his patience will force walks all on their own.
As for singles driven obp. We know what that looks like. That's Ichiro and Ryan Theriot (to a lesser degree). It's still a mediocre obp and their batting average is very misleading because they are empty singles with no walks. Pitchers aren't afraid of them and their batting average tells you nothing.
How did I know this was gonna turn into a sabermetrics battle .....