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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmain View Post
    what about trading down with st louis. our 5th and peterman for their 16, 22nd and a 6th?

    vaccaro would probably be there at 16 and a guy like dion jordan or okafor or montgomery at 22?
    draft barrett jones with 2, could go anywhere with our 3rd and kenjon barner in the 4th (comp pick)?
    I think trading down is our only option for improving the team.....and I do think St. Louis will be one of our trade partners. I think we can trade down to 16 and get two more 2nd round picks.......here's how:

    Trade down from 5th to 9th overall pick (NY Jets) so that they can jump ARZ and BUF to pick up a QB. Get a 2nd round pick in return.

    Trade down from 9th to 16th overall pick (St. Louis) so that they can jump MIA for a top WR (probably Patterson). Get a 2nd round pick in return.

    Trade Titus Young to St. Louis prior to the draft for SS Quinton Mikel (whom is rumored to being released as a cap casualty; due 6.2M in 2013).

    Then we go:

    1st Round (16th overall): DE Sam Montgomery (LSU)
    2nd Round (36th overall): OL Barrett Jones (Alabama)
    2nd Round (from NYJ): CB Desmond Trufant (Washington)
    2nd Round (from STL): OLB Khassim Greene (Rutgers)

    We should be able to get either the RB Glisspie (Florida) or Barner (Oregon) in the top of the 3rd round. Barner scares me because he did have a concussion 2 years back.

  2. #122
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    as far as safeties go (cause we need to draft one in top 3 rounds imo) i also really like rambo, jj wilcox, the kid from fresno state (philllips?) and cyrprien (cause of delmas connection).

    i really hope we can find top talent at G or C , DE , and S in those first 3 rounds.

  3. #123
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    stats dont say everthing? ok i can deal with that, what did suh contribute to the team aside from his stats? and dont say he made nick fairley good that kid is a stud regardless of who lines up next to him. by the way, suh is terrible against the run and thats more important for a dt than pass rushing. and dont mock my talent evaluation, im just not shortsighted and i can see problems down the road which is something a few people here have a problem grasping.

  4. #124
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    This is Walter's new mock thought id post it

    1. Bjoern Werner: The Lions' draft strategy is to pick the top player on their board. It just so happens that the best prospect available happens to fill a huge need.

    Kyle Vanden Bosch likely won't be back with the team next season because of his $5 million salary, while the other exterior pass-rushers, excluding Cliff Avril, barely did anything this past year.

    2. Barret Jones: Barrett Jones can play virtually any position on the offensive line, including center. Detroit's current center, the declining Dominic Raiola, will be due $4.05 million in a 2013 walk year. Help is needed at guard as well, as Stephen Peterman performed poorly.

    3. Jawan Jamison: The Lions talked about their lacking speed element at running back recently. They had it with Jahvid Best, but he may never play again.

    I like our 3rd round choice of Jamison, reminds a little of ray rice coming out same college too


    New York Yankees
    Los Angeles Lakers (Jimbaco)
    Detroit Lions Draft this man

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa View Post
    stats dont say everthing? ok i can deal with that, what did suh contribute to the team aside from his stats? and dont say he made nick fairley good that kid is a stud regardless of who lines up next to him. by the way, suh is terrible against the run and thats more important for a dt than pass rushing. and dont mock my talent evaluation, im just not shortsighted and i can see problems down the road which is something a few people here have a problem grasping.
    im not sure what this means, but if you do not think suh was the only consistent dominate force on the DLine. Then yes, I would second guess your talent evaluation

    Vandenbosh-Awful season
    Avril-Disappeared often
    SLH-Good season overall
    Fairly-Shows flashes of dominance, but has yet to stay healthy in 2 seasons
    CWill-Hurt most of the year and getting up there in age

    I really like Fairly, but he needs to stay healthy. I do not want to put the dline on his back until he shows he can show up every game.

    Maybe I should have clarified about saying "stats are not everything". The two major stats everyone looks at are sacks and tackles. Suh constantly breaks through the line and puts pressure on the QB. This stat is usually overlooked. He draws a lot of double teams and creates mismatches for his teammates. Where would Cliff Avril be without Suh, average at best.

    I do not think Suh is awful against the run. He gets so much penetration, it is up to the back 7 to fill the gaps. Which we have been awful at and awful at tackling.

    If you traded him, who would you bring in that would fill our holes on defense after creating one? Anyone worth mentioning, we would have to severly over pay to get them to sign. Not to mention, I doubt they would impact the team as Suh has for us. If you really want to gamble and creat cap space while adding draft picks. We better have one hell of a draft, which I am sorry to say that is too risky with our recent history. Additionaly, the players we bring in better be impact players for a good deal.....

    All of that sounds just too unrealistic to hit on all of those. I will stick with Suh and create cap space else where to sign a couple of our guys.
    Last edited by brandonjw18; 01-29-2013 at 08:07 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonjw18 View Post
    im not sure what this means, but if you do not think suh was the only consistent dominate force on the DLine. Then yes, I would second guess your talent evaluation

    Vandenbosh-Awful season
    Avril-Disappeared often
    SLH-Good season overall
    Fairly-Shows flashes of dominance, but has yet to stay healthy in 2 seasons
    CWill-Hurt most of the year and getting up there in age

    I really like Fairly, but he needs to stay healthy. I do not want to put the dline on his back until he shows he can show up every game.

    Maybe I should have clarified about saying "stats are not everything". The two major stats everyone looks at are sacks and tackles. Suh constantly breaks through the line and puts pressure on the QB. This stat is usually overlooked. He draws a lot of double teams and creates mismatches for his teammates. Where would Cliff Avril be without Suh, average at best.

    I do not think Suh is awful against the run. He gets so much penetration, it is up to the back 7 to fill the gaps. Which we have been awful at and awful at tackling.

    If you traded him, who would you bring in that would fill our holes on defense after creating one? Anyone worth mentioning, we would have to severly over pay to get them to sign. Not to mention, I doubt they would impact the team as Suh has for us. If you really want to gamble and creat cap space while adding draft picks. We better have one hell of a draft, which I am sorry to say that is too risky with our recent history. Additionaly, the players we bring in better be impact players for a good deal.....

    All of that sounds just too unrealistic to hit on all of those. I will stick with Suh and create cap space else where to sign a couple of our guys.
    THIS, x 10000000000000000083559453.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

    ^^^^^
    -Lions were 5th best in adjusted line yards.
    -Lions were the 5th hardest team in the NFL to run against up the middle.
    -Lions were 2nd best in the NFL is stuff rate (percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage)
    -Lions were ranked 29th in 2nd level yards given up (yards earned by opposing running backs against this team between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries)
    -Lions were ranked 27th in open field yards given up (yards earned by opposing running backs against this team more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries)

    A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in Open Field Yards has a strong defensive line but its linebackers and secondary have difficulty in pursuit and tackling.
    IT"S THE LINEBACKERS. THEY SUCK. ABSOLUTELY SUCK. Basically, what this means is that the d-line (and Suh) have generally done a very good job of stopping the running back before they reach the line of scrimmage. But on the few times (relatively speaking, compared to the rest of the NFL) the runningback actually breaks through the D-line the linebackers and safeties have difficulty being in position and wrapping up meaning lots of long runs are being broken.
    Last edited by FortDetroit; 01-29-2013 at 08:30 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    THIS, x 10000000000000000083559453.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

    ^^^^^
    -Lions were the 5th hardest team in the NFL to run against up the middle.
    -Lions were 2nd best in the NFL is stuff rate (percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage)
    -Lions were ranked 29th in 2nd level yards given up (yards earned by opposing running backs against this team between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries)
    -Lions were ranked 27th in open field yards given up (yards earned by opposing running backs against this team more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries)



    IT"S THE LINEBACKERS. THEY SUCK. ABSOLUTELY SUCK.
    Alec Ogletree in a trade back?


    New York Yankees
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    Detroit Lions Draft this man

  8. #128
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    I agree that the defensive line is horrendous as well as the linebackers, secondary, and offensive line. And I really think we need a big receiver to play opposite of calvin and we could use a speed back. the problem is that we dont have enough draft picks or the cap space to fill our many holes with IMPACT players. we could get some salary cap by releasing scrubs but it wont give us enough money to replace them with better players. with the money we would save by trading suh we could get a couple of draft picks and sign two impact players. we could find a dt who is worthy of starting with one of those assets. or we can hold onto suh until his contract expires and he asks for 15 million per or he walks. we shouldnt get attached to players even if they are good because at the end of the day its a business and its about winning and holding onto suh is a bad business decision.

  9. #129
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    and id call a draft of damontre moore, matt elam, xhavier rhodes, larry warford and khaseem greene realistic as they fill needs and could start immediately and most likely be the bpa when drafted (i could care less about bpa but the lions for some reason do).

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa View Post
    stats dont say everthing? ok i can deal with that, what did suh contribute to the team aside from his stats? and dont say he made nick fairley good that kid is a stud regardless of who lines up next to him. by the way, suh is terrible against the run and thats more important for a dt than pass rushing. and dont mock my talent evaluation, im just not shortsighted and i can see problems down the road which is something a few people here have a problem grasping.
    kingwood?

    Off-season Sucks

  11. #131
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    Trading Suh = Millenesque

  12. #132
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    @SOSA
    In only 8 posts, you already make more sense to me than anyone else (no offense). Maybe I'm just looking through my beer goggles of 54 posts, but I agree with almost every single thing you're saying.

    It seems to me like everyone on here thinks we're a couple of players away from a deep playoff push. NO WAY! We have no money for FAs (including our own). Too many holes, too.

    We are 9-19 in our last 28 games (.321%). That is God awful. How does anyone think we don't need to start rebuilding right now. With our Cap problems, I believe our team is going to be worst next year. Not to mention a pretty difficult schedule next year, too. I'm thinking anywhere from 4-12 to 8-8.

    I like what Sosa said about restructuring contracts is just defering the payment. This is absolutely true. We suck right now and we are going to restructure these guys, just to have an Average/Above Average roster. We're going to be screwed again in 2/3 years. All so we can have a .500 team?

    I'm all for trading Suh. People say you're creating a hole by getting rid of our best defensive player (which he is by far). But now you can sign 2 players for his money and they will be the 2 best players on our defense. We suck and Suh is not going to help us get better. It's a TEAM SPORT, and the only position worth overpaying for is QB.

    Do whatever we have to, to get 6 draft picks in the first 90 picks.

    Just my 2 cents. Go ahead and rip me boys! LOL

  13. #133
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    I dont really want to trade back at # 5...this is an oppertunity to get a real game changer...plus talent can always be found in FA w/o breaking the bank


    COME AT ME BRO!!!!!

    IN MAYHEW AND SCHWARTZ I TRUST!!!

  14. #134
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    thank you, finally someone sees some sense. it seems like everyone if freaking out because i want to trade our best defensive player but having several good, young, and CHEAP defensive players is very valuable to us given our cap situation. the only thing worse than trading suh is keeping him and watch him walk for nothing when he demands a ludicrous amount of money in free agency. and @okielionsfan, when did millen ever trade a good but expensive player in exchange for young cheap talent and cap relief? that guy drafted joey harrington and 4 receivers in the 1st round four years in a row. your comparison is moronic at best.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by sosa View Post
    thank you, finally someone sees some sense. it seems like everyone if freaking out because i want to trade our best defensive player but having several good, young, and CHEAP defensive players is very valuable to us given our cap situation. the only thing worse than trading suh is keeping him and watch him walk for nothing when he demands a ludicrous amount of money in free agency. and @okielionsfan, when did millen ever trade a good but expensive player in exchange for young cheap talent and cap relief? that guy drafted joey harrington and 4 receivers in the 1st round four years in a row. your comparison is moronic at best.
    marinelli dished shaun rogers. im not on either side, but if we could get a nice return like a 1st, 2nd, and future 2nd.. i might. but i dont see that coming.
    Last edited by JMDTM; 01-30-2013 at 03:14 PM.
    Joique Bell
    WHOOP!

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