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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by haggis View Post
    He could start with walking on water.
    Been done; not impressive.

    People need to relax with all these hirings. Most coaches don't take over a 10-6 team, so saying most new HCs lose seems obvious - they take over bad teams. And most new DCs don't get a top 5-10 defense handed to them. There are always bumps in the road and I expect this to be no different, but I also think this new staff is being given a better chance at immediate success than most new staffs. Time will tell, so give it time.

  2. #137
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    I don't hate this hire but he's never had a top 5 defense. The Jags were 6th in yards and 11th in points in 2011, and the Browns 16th and 26th in 2008, but every other year the defense was a bottom 5 defense.

    OOTP TKO League Milwaukee Brewers 2010-2032:
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    Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet: I will end you.

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  3. #138
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    yeah whoops got some wrong info...but still everyone just needs to relax and give him a chance...see what he can do with some of the talent we have

  4. #139
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    Well he's getting the keys to a Porsche so he has the talent to win now and develop starters in the future with Emery's help.

    I also heard that Phair the D-line coach is staying so that should help aswell.
    Broncos be like:


  5. #140
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    Yeah, again, I think the big reason for the hire was his familiarity with a bunch of different defensive systems. The one big takeaway I got from the Trestman presser was that Trestman views scheme as a very malleable subject. He much prefers just maxing out the net talent on a roster and making the scheme fit the those players. That way you can just rate the players on your draft board and then find ways for them to make an impact as quickly as possible. So if the best overall player on the board is a big hulking defensive lineman you don't marginalize him by having him lose 20 lbs and playing the nose tackle position in Lovie's 43 under 1 gap scheme, you can keep him as is and call two gap schemes so he can demand more doubles. Or if you have a smaller, faster player who played standing up in college you don't have to shoe horn him into a rush end role that he's not accustomed to. You can move him around and maybe see if he can play coverage in ways that traditional DEs can't (like McClellin). Or if the best player available is some small Darren Sproles or Percy Harvin WR/HB tweener, you just draft that guy and find ways of getting him the ball in space in a variety of contexts instead of just labelling him a "WR" and throwing a screens and reverses his way.

    OOTP TKO League Milwaukee Brewers 2010-2032:
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    Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet: I will end you.

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  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str1fe5 View Post
    Yeah, again, I think the big reason for the hire was his familiarity with a bunch of different defensive systems. The one big takeaway I got from the Trestman presser was that Trestman views scheme as a very malleable subject. He much prefers just maxing out the net talent on a roster and making the scheme fit the those players. That way you can just rate the players on your draft board and then find ways for them to make an impact as quickly as possible. So if the best overall player on the board is a big hulking defensive lineman you don't marginalize him by having him lose 20 lbs and playing the nose tackle position in Lovie's 43 under 1 gap scheme, you can keep him as is and call two gap schemes so he can demand more doubles. Or if you have a smaller, faster player who played standing up in college you don't have to shoe horn him into a rush end role that he's not accustomed to. You can move him around and maybe see if he can play coverage in ways that traditional DEs can't (like McClellin). Or if the best player available is some small Darren Sproles or Percy Harvin WR/HB tweener, you just draft that guy and find ways of getting him the ball in space in a variety of contexts instead of just labelling him a "WR" and throwing a screens and reverses his way.
    i was extremely happy to hear trestman say best play available and not just sticking with scheme guys

  7. #142
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    I'm willing to give Tucker a chance because it seems like he's never had the opportunity to work with the caliber of talent that we have on our defense. Having said that, at this point I'm definitely seeing this hire as a downgrade from Marinelli.
    Last edited by beardown1985; 01-21-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  8. #143
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    ^ But Hot Rod left, he was not canned. The Bears theoretically could have made him stay, but that is a disaster waiting to happen. Don't judgeTucker based on Rod. Judge Tucker to other DC candidates. DCs with recent success or great track records generally have a job already. Is it a risk? Sure. Are there clearly better options? Arguable.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str1fe5 View Post
    Yeah, again, I think the big reason for the hire was his familiarity with a bunch of different defensive systems. The one big takeaway I got from the Trestman presser was that Trestman views scheme as a very malleable subject. He much prefers just maxing out the net talent on a roster and making the scheme fit the those players. That way you can just rate the players on your draft board and then find ways for them to make an impact as quickly as possible. So if the best overall player on the board is a big hulking defensive lineman you don't marginalize him by having him lose 20 lbs and playing the nose tackle position in Lovie's 43 under 1 gap scheme, you can keep him as is and call two gap schemes so he can demand more doubles. Or if you have a smaller, faster player who played standing up in college you don't have to shoe horn him into a rush end role that he's not accustomed to. You can move him around and maybe see if he can play coverage in ways that traditional DEs can't (like McClellin). Or if the best player available is some small Darren Sproles or Percy Harvin WR/HB tweener, you just draft that guy and find ways of getting him the ball in space in a variety of contexts instead of just labelling him a "WR" and throwing a screens and reverses his way.
    Great post strife. Since Trestman has been hired I've loved that he talks about adapting scheme to players not vice versa

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub_StuckinSTL View Post
    Great post strife. Since Trestman has been hired I've loved that he talks about adapting scheme to players not vice versa
    I loved how he talked about breaking down each player on he roster



  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    ^ But Hot Rod left, he was not canned. The Bears theoretically could have made him stay, but that is a disaster waiting to happen. Don't judgeTucker based on Rod. Judge Tucker to other DC candidates. DCs with recent success or great track records generally have a job already. Is it a risk? Sure. Are there clearly better options? Arguable.
    I definitely agree that there wasn't a whole lot of options to choose from. But that's part of the risk inherent with letting Lovie go. There is obviously a level of sacrifice in regards to the coaching change, and with Marinelli leaving I'm afraid that will become apparent on the defensive side of the ball. The question is, can Trestman make enough positive advancements on offense to offset what may be a considerable decline on defense? Depending on how much we can improve our OL in one offseason, my gut tells me he might not be able to, at least not right away. No matter who's drawing up the plays, it's hard to have any success on offense when only 5 or 6 of your players are NFL-caliber starters.

  12. #147
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    That is assuming the defense falls apart, which is completely unknown at this time. If the offense wasn't so terrible, the defense would have some room for error. Before the offseason roster moves have started and before the staff has spent one day working with players just seems premature to call any coach a bad choice or say the team is moving backwards. That's my opinion anyways.

    Clearly what Lovie (and Rod) were doing wasnt cutting it. And neither Emery or Trestman ever said they wanted Rod to go. This situation has developed into this, it wasn't planned (but was foreseeable) Tucker has experience and has had some good D's, so it seems like a reasonable "gamble".

  13. #148
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    Yeah, I think we are getting way too panic stricken with all of this. We really are going to have to let this off season play out with respect to personnel, including letting all of free agency and the draft occur to get a better idea of what the roster is going to look like, and then we're really going to have to sit through a full season and see how this team does. None of us are extremely familiar with any of the coordinators, we don't know how this newer aggressively BPA philosophy will shape the roster. And I think anyone who is so easily dismissing the idea of a change to any kind of scheme on defense as impossible, that the personnel can't fit it, etc. is thinking a little myopically.

    I was one of the guys who was against the Lovie firing, but there's nothing to be done for it now. Let's all take a slice of humble pie and acknowledge that we really have nothing close to the acumen, training, and experience to properly evaluate NFL players and what techniques are required for different systems, and how players' raw abilities do or do not fit into those systems. I think it's safe to assume that players who were pretty awful before under different schemes wont' improve much going forward, and good players will stay pretty good. I don't expect J'Marcus Webb to be molded into a solid starting LT or Devin Hester developing into a difference making player on offense, nor do I expect Lance Briggs, Julius Peppers, or Charles Tillman to suddenly stop being really good just because Lovie and his staff are gone.

    Everyone, its' time to be patient.

    OOTP TKO League Milwaukee Brewers 2010-2032:
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    10 NL Central Titles, 2 Wild Card 12 Total Playoff Appearances
    1 World Series Title (2021)



    Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet: I will end you.

    -Malcolm Reynolds


  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str1fe5 View Post
    Yeah, I think we are getting way too panic stricken with all of this. We really are going to have to let this off season play out with respect to personnel, including letting all of free agency and the draft occur to get a better idea of what the roster is going to look like, and then we're really going to have to sit through a full season and see how this team does. None of us are extremely familiar with any of the coordinators, we don't know how this newer aggressively BPA philosophy will shape the roster. And I think anyone who is so easily dismissing the idea of a change to any kind of scheme on defense as impossible, that the personnel can't fit it, etc. is thinking a little myopically.

    I was one of the guys who was against the Lovie firing, but there's nothing to be done for it now. Let's all take a slice of humble pie and acknowledge that we really have nothing close to the acumen, training, and experience to properly evaluate NFL players and what techniques are required for different systems, and how players' raw abilities do or do not fit into those systems. I think it's safe to assume that players who were pretty awful before under different schemes wont' improve much going forward, and good players will stay pretty good. I don't expect J'Marcus Webb to be molded into a solid starting LT or Devin Hester developing into a difference making player on offense, nor do I expect Lance Briggs, Julius Peppers, or Charles Tillman to suddenly stop being really good just because Lovie and his staff are gone.

    Everyone, its' time to be patient.
    Good post, and I agree with all of your points.

    Trestman shouldn't/won't try square pegs in round holes, it will cost him a job.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str1fe5 View Post
    Yeah, I think we are getting way too panic stricken with all of this. We really are going to have to let this off season play out with respect to personnel, including letting all of free agency and the draft occur to get a better idea of what the roster is going to look like, and then we're really going to have to sit through a full season and see how this team does. None of us are extremely familiar with any of the coordinators, we don't know how this newer aggressively BPA philosophy will shape the roster. And I think anyone who is so easily dismissing the idea of a change to any kind of scheme on defense as impossible, that the personnel can't fit it, etc. is thinking a little myopically.

    I was one of the guys who was against the Lovie firing, but there's nothing to be done for it now. Let's all take a slice of humble pie and acknowledge that we really have nothing close to the acumen, training, and experience to properly evaluate NFL players and what techniques are required for different systems, and how players' raw abilities do or do not fit into those systems. I think it's safe to assume that players who were pretty awful before under different schemes wont' improve much going forward, and good players will stay pretty good. I don't expect J'Marcus Webb to be molded into a solid starting LT or Devin Hester developing into a difference making player on offense, nor do I expect Lance Briggs, Julius Peppers, or Charles Tillman to suddenly stop being really good just because Lovie and his staff are gone.

    Everyone, its' time to be patient.
    As usual Strlfe, I can't disagree on anything, however, patience is so easy to say and so hard to tame...

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