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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Are you serious in equating assists as the main criteria in PG rating? If not, then why are writing this comment?

    What pray tell are your criteria for PG (AKA basketball player)? And where this year do you rank Rondo? And if it's higher than 10, let's see the logic?
    Assists is the bona fide most important stat for a point guard. Not even the farthest fetched reaches of your warped advanced stat only mind can you pull anything out of your butt that would remotely resemble anything worthy of an argument that the league leader in assists could end up 11th on a top PG list. NOTHING.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Assists is the bona fide most important stat for a point guard. Not even the farthest fetched reaches of your warped advanced stat only mind can you pull anything out of your butt that would remotely resemble anything worthy of an argument that the league leader in assists could end up 11th on a top PG list. NOTHING.
    There's a whole lot more than just assists.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    There's a whole lot more than just assists.
    No doubt. But it's still the #1 measurement of a PG. Not the only one, but the best and most telling one.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  4. #49
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    Rondo currently 2nd best PG on the current MVP list.

    http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html

    1. Lebron
    2. Durant
    3. Paul
    ...
    8. Rondo
    .
    10. Westbrook

    STATS FROM LAST WEEK (1/11-1/17): 12.0 ppg | 10.3 apg | 1.7 spg
    The Celtics' mini-resurgence (6-4 in their last 10 games) has no doubt been fueled by the play of their mercurial point guard, who has notched triple-doubles twice in his last six games. Rondo is not scoring the way he was during a brief stretch last month, but he doesn't have to now that Paul Pierce is in a groove. Rondo being tabbed as a starter for the Eastern Conference All-Star team is clearly an indication that his approval rating is as high among the fans as it is among the pundits


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Assists is the bona fide most important stat for a point guard. Not even the farthest fetched reaches of your warped advanced stat only mind can you pull anything out of your butt that would remotely resemble anything worthy of an argument that the league leader in assists could end up 11th on a top PG list. NOTHING.
    Assists is certainly not the most important stat for a PG. It's a major consideration - yes . But a team that has excellent passing overall doesn't need to have a PG with 13 APG, because there are teams with PG's with 6-7 APG that have more effective offenses. Anyone that doesn't know Paul, Westbrook, and Parker are all crushing Rondo this year - like a rotten grape - and all with less assists than Rondo per game is either not watching enough games with other teams, or a Rondo suck up.

    I just noticed you said you hadn't respected me for 2 years... let's see a guy that:

    1. didn't know the importance of Sam Jones or Kevin McHale historically for the Celts
    2. a guy that didn't think that the owners had any right to do anything with their investments but fork over money so you wouldn't miss a game
    3. went out onto the main NBA board to argue against advanced stats and got your head handed to you?
    4. a guy that argues Pierce as a better player than Bird?

    I don't want your respect Jack.

    I care that minds that are less set in concrete understand - or at least consider the arguments that Rondo isn't perfect and isn't deserving of single of the two MVP votes he ever got, or this years ECF AS berth. That's enough for me.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Rondo currently 2nd best PG on the current MVP list.

    http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html

    1. Lebron
    2. Durant
    3. Paul
    ...
    8. Rondo
    .
    10. Westbrook
    Who cares? He hasn't earned it with actual performance.

    As far as his #2 FG you mentioned earlier.

    Rondo is 7th in eFG% and 7th in FGA - good for him over the past few years, but not good in terms of being an AS this year.

    Rondo is also 17th in FGA among all point guards. So, you say, he gets a lot of assists. Nice, but a team that is 19th in scoring that has the PG with the 2nd highest 2 point FG% in the league would seem to be somebody that should be hoisting more shots a game.

    Pierce is #1 in FGA with a meh .427%
    KG is 2nd in FGA with a good .507%
    Rondo is 3rd in FGA with a good .496%

    Courtney, Bass, and Lee are fairly close in FGA, but meh in FG%, so why isn't Rondo shooting more?

    I don't mean crazy totals, but instead of his current 11.3, what about 14?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    No doubt. But it's still the #1 measurement of a PG. Not the only one, but the best and most telling one.
    Two way game right? PG's are expected to be two way players, right?

    Well defense is usually looked at as one category, so I'd say defense is more important than assists, since assists is a subset of offense - even for a PG.

    It's impossible to judge the relative importance of assists vs scoring unless you know what the team needs and has asked for.

    Parker scores and makes plays both. He plays for a balanced well coached team that needs both things.

    So because he has 3.8 more APG less than Rondo, he's not as good? Here is a hint - this year Parker is walking all over Rondo - easily.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #53
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    69centers quoted "STATS FROM LAST WEEK (1/11-1/17): 12.0 ppg | 10.3 apg | 1.7 spg
    The Celtics' mini-resurgence (6-4 in their last 10 games) has no doubt been fueled by the play of their mercurial point guard, who has notched triple-doubles twice in his last six games. Rondo is not scoring the way he was during a brief stretch last month, but he doesn't have to now that Paul Pierce is in a groove. Rondo being tabbed as a starter for the Eastern Conference All-Star team is clearly an indication that his approval rating is as high among the fans as it is among the pundits"

    Before the game of 12/15/12 Rondo had 12.9 assists per game, in the 16 games since then he has 8.7

    Rondo's FG% was about .514 as of 12/24 and it's been .475 since

    I guess all those fans and writers are too busy to see Rondo having another very flat period - much like his 14 game dead zone after Perk was dealt over two years agol.

    How can a player be great or a leader if he goes and hibernates for long periods of time? In any event, he's undeserving of anything this year, but to lie on the coach of therapist, before he buries the Celts with this "leadership" of his. I think it's time to anoint Bradley the leader of the future, couldn't be a worse choice than 'ole Random Rondo.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Assists is the bona fide most important stat for a point guard. Not even the farthest fetched reaches of your warped advanced stat only mind can you pull anything out of your butt that would remotely resemble anything worthy of an argument that the league leader in assists could end up 11th on a top PG list. NOTHING.
    You are just putting your head in the sand at this point. It's OK to concede someone's point and respectfully disagree.

    The FACTS are, Rondo turns the ball over a lot, shoots poorly from 3 and the line, and doesn't score enough most nights.

    If he's #1 in assists, and really stinking bad in a lot of other categories, well than it averages out to less than a #1 point guard.

    I'll just go full-troll mode and post this if it helps you
    http://www.mathsisfun.com/mean.html

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by xk4 View Post
    You are just putting your head in the sand at this point. It's OK to concede someone's point and respectfully disagree.

    The FACTS are, Rondo turns the ball over a lot, shoots poorly from 3 and the line, and doesn't score enough most nights.

    If he's #1 in assists, and really stinking bad in a lot of other categories, well than it averages out to less than a #1 point guard.

    I'll just go full-troll mode and post this if it helps you
    http://www.mathsisfun.com/mean.html
    I never said he was #1 because he's #1 in assists, but I did say he certainly wasn't #11, based on being the assist leader. How many times do point guards EVER lead the league with 11+ assists. It rarely happens from season to season to anyone other than guys named Nash.

    As far as Bags' multiple rants above, no one is going to have 10+ assists per game, every game. He's human. He'll have "flat" stretches. Although, he did have a pretty long streak going, which was only EVER reached by Stockton and Magic.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  11. #56
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    Assist leaders:

    2012-13 Rajon Rondo 11.0

    2011-12 Rajon Rondo 11.7
    2010-11 Steve Nash 11.4
    2009-10 Steve Nash 11.0
    2008-09 Chris Paul 11.0
    2007-08 Chris Paul 11.6
    2006-07 Steve Nash 11.6
    2005-06 Steve Nash 10.5
    2004-05 Steve Nash 11.5
    2003-04 Jason Kidd 9.2
    2002-03 Jason Kidd 8.9
    2001-02 Andre Miller 10.9
    2000-01 Jason Kidd 9.8
    1999-00 Jason Kidd 10.1
    1998-99 Jason Kidd 10.8
    1997-98 Rod Strickland 10.5
    1996-97 Mark Jackson 11.4
    1995-96 John Stockton 11.2
    1994-95 John Stockton 12.3
    1993-94 John Stockton 12.6
    1992-93 John Stockton 12.0
    1991-92 John Stockton 13.7
    1990-91 John Stockton 14.2
    1989-90 John Stockton 14.5
    1988-89 John Stockton 13.6
    1987-88 John Stockton 13.8
    1986-87 Magic Johnson 12.2
    1985-86 Magic Johnson 12.6
    1984-85 Isiah Thomas 13.9
    1983-84 Magic Johnson 13.1
    1982-83 Magic Johnson 10.5


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    I never said he was #1 because he's #1 in assists, but I did say he certainly wasn't #11, based on being the assist leader. How many times do point guards EVER lead the league with 11+ assists. It rarely happens from season to season to anyone other than guys named Nash.

    As far as Bags' multiple rants above, no one is going to have 10+ assists per game, every game. He's human. He'll have "flat" stretches. Although, he did have a pretty long streak going, which was only EVER reached by Stockton and Magic.
    Characterizing points you have no answer for as "rants"? Good to know you have no actual answers and you know it.

    16 games isn't a few games, it's almost 1/5 of the season. And a drop of 67% of the prior average of Rondo's key statistic is alarming - unless you are in denial.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Characterizing points you have no answer for as "rants"? Good to know you have no actual answers and you know it.

    16 games isn't a few games, it's almost 1/5 of the season. And a drop of 67% of the prior average of Rondo's key statistic is alarming - unless you are in denial.
    Yet he's still the 2nd best point guard in the MVP race right now. Funny, I don't see any of your other 9 PG's you say are better than Rondo (other than Paul) on that list. Explain away why they're not there. Where's Hill and Calderon, lmfao.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Assist leaders:

    2012-13 Rajon Rondo 11.0
    Rondo was leading by much more on 12/24 when he had 12.9 APG, and shoe in #1 for the year, now it's much closer, and a continued drop of Rondo's assists - which to some extent seems by design - along the lines of his recent 8.7 could well result in Rondo not winning the "title" - BTW, does he get a statue for that?

    Paul 9.7
    Holiday 9.0
    Vazquez 9.0
    Nash 8.8
    Westbrook 8.3


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Yet he's still the 2nd best point guard in the MVP race right now. Funny, I don't see any of your other 9 PG's you say are better than Rondo (other than Paul) on that list. Explain away why they're not there. Where's Hill and Calderon, lmfao.
    AS voting is done by people with less on the ball than many PSD posters, why should they be used as a benchmark of truth by anyone unless that person's arguments are bankrupt?

    You got it wrong Jack. I don't need to explain anything, those voters need to explain why they are running a popularity contest.

    BTW, I noticed as usual you didn't even answer my points. Is it an issue with reading, or an issue of ducking facts that I have been so effectively and completely making a farce of this "AS" vote?
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-19-2013 at 10:16 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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