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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
    If by regress, you mean he will become a great leader and a terrific 2-way player, then yes, he will regress. I see him as becoming another Toews (not stellar point totals, but one of the best players in the game)

    I don't understand on why people are saying the Pens O isn't the best, they were the best last year without Crosby for most of it. I'm not saying that their D or goalies are the best, I'm saying their O is the best, which really isn't debatable.
    1. When I say regress I am talking about his offensive production as that is what you were calling into question. Giroux has improved every year offensively since entering the NHL. Giroux also not only continued his offensive pace during the playoffs but upped it a notch averaging 1.7 PPG. In Berlin during the lockout he was over a 2PPG player (granted not NHL level but still evidence that he continues to be very dangerous offensively). There is nothing that I can see that might indicate he cannot reproduce last seasons preformance.

    2. No one is arguing that on paper Pittsburgh looks like the best offense in the NHL. The argument is that they will not have one player win the Art Ross AND TWO DIFFERENT PLAYERS finish in the top 5 in goals. Yes Malkin and Neal had great years but if Crosby plays all year he takes chances away from the previous two as mentioned.

    Saying the Pens offense is the best because they were last year isn't a very convincing argument. The Flyers offense was number 2 last year and I doubt they will replicate that. Hartnell scored 37 goals last year and I doubt he repeats that. You also lost a center playing on your 3rd line that routinely puts up 20-25 goals and 45-50 points. Your powerplay and top line (maybe even top 2 lines) will be awesome but it drops off quickly from there in my opinion.

    Last years offense has little impact on this years offense and this is a forum so yes everything is debatable especially when trying to predict the future.

  2. #47
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    I like that @abourne13, here's my list

    Ana. Getzlaf & Perry bolt to Toronto after this season
    Bos. Tuukka & Anton lead the league in GAA
    Buf. Ryan Miller leads the league in SO's
    Cgy. Iginla re-signs and retires as a Flame
    Car. Semin finishes 3rd in goals scored
    Chi. Misses the playoffs by 1 point
    Col. Hand CHI the loss that makes them miss the playoffs
    Cbj. Will be considered the winners of the Nash trade after this year
    Dal. Jamie Benn will not play this season
    Det. Miss the playoffs.
    Edm. Finishes with the 6th worst record
    Fla. Misses the playoffs
    La. Carter returns to 30 goal form
    Min. Finishes as the #3 seed
    Mtl. Alex Galchenyuk wins ROY
    Nsh. Pekka wins the Vezina
    Nj. Marty finally retires
    Nyi. Makes it past the 1st round of the playoffs
    Nyr. Nash doesn't live up to Rangers fans expectation
    Ott. Karlsson has a down year
    Phi. Bryz leads the Flyers to the ECF
    Phx. Misses the playoffs and relocation talks get more series
    Pit. MAF loses his job to Vokoun down the stretch
    Sj. Sweeps the Kings in the season series
    Stl. Trades a goalie at the deadline to make a playoff push
    Tb. Stammer is the only player to score 45+ goals
    Tor. Trades Kessel and moves up in the draft to get Nathan MacKinnon
    Van. Doesn't trade Lou and is relieved when Corey doesn't pan out
    Wsh. Backstrom leads the league in Assist
    Wpg. Buff moves back to winger


    First Milk Crates, Now Water Bottles.....Nothing is Safe

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
    Giroux already is a very good 2-way player, there's no denying that. However, with how bad the D situation is in Philly, there's a possibility that he leaves some offense on the table to help out in his own end. There's also the possibility of Philly running a more conservative system to help out their D. So now, you have a good 2-way player that can't really do much on the offensive side because of the situation/system, so why wouldn't he get better at the defensive side? I already think he will be a great leader, so that's that. Now, you have a center that is very good offensively, but is even better defensively. That's Toews.

    Some examples are Staal (30 goals in his rookie season, became more defensive, and hasn't hit it since), Bergeron (had 73 and 70 points in his first 2 seasons, he started playing more defensively, never hit it again, and now has a Selke) and Backes (broke out in 2011, scored less last year but was a finalist for the Selke).
    None of the players you mentioned were the premiere offensive talent on their teams. They developed more into two way players because their team had another player with more offensive talent to score goals and play top powerplay minutes. Grioux is the premiere offensive talent on the Flyers. He plays premiere minutes and is the heart of the powerplay.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    I like that @abourne13, here's my list

    Ana. Getzlaf & Perry bolt to Toronto after this season
    Bos. Tuukka & Anton lead the league in GAA
    Buf. Ryan Miller leads the league in SO's
    Cgy. Iginla re-signs and retires as a Flame
    Car. Semin finishes 3rd in goals scored
    Chi. Misses the playoffs by 1 point
    Col. Hand CHI the loss that makes them miss the playoffs
    Cbj. Will be considered the winners of the Nash trade after this year
    Dal. Jamie Benn will not play this season
    Det. Miss the playoffs.
    Edm. Finishes with the 6th worst record
    Fla. Misses the playoffs
    La. Carter returns to 30 goal form
    Min. Finishes as the #3 seed
    Mtl. Alex Galchenyuk wins ROY
    Nsh. Pekka wins the Vezina
    Nj. Marty finally retires
    Nyi. Makes it past the 1st round of the playoffs
    Nyr. Nash doesn't live up to Rangers fans expectation
    Ott. Karlsson has a down year
    Phi. Bryz leads the Flyers to the ECF
    Phx. Misses the playoffs and relocation talks get more series
    Pit. MAF loses his job to Vokoun down the stretch
    Sj. Sweeps the Kings in the season series
    Stl. Trades a goalie at the deadline to make a playoff push
    Tb. Stammer is the only player to score 45+ goals
    Tor. Trades Kessel and moves up in the draft to get Nathan MacKinnon
    Van. Doesn't trade Lou and is relieved when Corey doesn't pan out
    Wsh. Backstrom leads the league in Assist
    Wpg. Buff moves back to winger


    That's 77 goals in a season.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManIsNoMan View Post
    I like that @abourne13, here's my list

    Ana. Getzlaf & Perry bolt to Toronto after this season
    Bos. Tuukka & Anton lead the league in GAA
    Buf. Ryan Miller leads the league in SO's
    Cgy. Iginla re-signs and retires as a Flame
    Car. Semin finishes 3rd in goals scored
    Chi. Misses the playoffs by 1 point
    Col. Hand CHI the loss that makes them miss the playoffs
    Cbj. Will be considered the winners of the Nash trade after this year
    Dal. Jamie Benn will not play this season
    Det. Miss the playoffs.
    Edm. Finishes with the 6th worst record
    Fla. Misses the playoffs
    La. Carter returns to 30 goal form
    Min. Finishes as the #3 seed
    Mtl. Alex Galchenyuk wins ROY
    Nsh. Pekka wins the Vezina
    Nj. Marty finally retires
    Nyi. Makes it past the 1st round of the playoffs
    Nyr. Nash doesn't live up to Rangers fans expectation
    Ott. Karlsson has a down year
    Phi. Bryz leads the Flyers to the ECF
    Phx. Misses the playoffs and relocation talks get more series
    Pit. MAF loses his job to Vokoun down the stretch
    Sj. Sweeps the Kings in the season series
    Stl. Trades a goalie at the deadline to make a playoff push
    Tb. Stammer is the only player to score 45+ goals
    Tor. Trades Kessel and moves up in the draft to get Nathan MacKinnon
    Van. Doesn't trade Lou and is relieved when Corey doesn't pan out
    Wsh. Backstrom leads the league in Assist
    Wpg. Buff moves back to winger
    You forgot the part about after trading up to get McKinnon that it becomes evident the Leafs are still under Brian Burke's influence when they believe they are a goalie away from the playoffs and trade McKinnon to Boston for Tim Thomas.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruins>habs View Post
    you do have Kessel though
    It's hard to believe what we've handed you guys over the years. We set ourselves back 5-10 years to keep you guys gunning for 5-10 years. Worst part of it all is that the Leafs and Bruins are in the same division. Why a team would stack another team in their own division baffles me. Well not so much now I've been a Leaf fan for almost 30 years. Seen it all.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    You forgot the part about after trading up to get McKinnon that it becomes evident the Leafs are still under Brian Burke's influence when they believe they are a goalie away from the playoffs and trade McKinnon to Boston for Tim Thomas.
    I can't even get mad at these Leafs jokes anymore because I understand haha.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
    Some examples are Staal (30 goals in his rookie season, became more defensive, and hasn't hit it since), Bergeron (had 73 and 70 points in his first 2 seasons, he started playing more defensively, never hit it again, and now has a Selke) and Backes (broke out in 2011, scored less last year but was a finalist for the Selke).
    Staal plays on the third line and his 30 goal season was hugely shooting percentage driven (22% holy ****). He also didn't exactly have 90+ points. He also has posted more points than that year since then.

    Bergeron isn't really far off from his totals (9 points from career high), and suffered a major concussion in between them which has affected him. Also those totals came from when the NHL was more offensive.


    Backes benefited from shooting luck in 2010-2011 but that season wasn't really different than his previous 30 goal season (Also got some shooting luck here). He only had 8 less points last year without the shooting luck.

    All of these players are pretty much within the range of the year of their career highs. The most their down by is 7-8 points.

    You have Giroux down at least 20. If you said Giroux isn't a high 90 point scorer again, I might be able to buy it, but I don't really see a reason to say he's facing massive regression offensively, other than you don't like him.

  9. #54
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    By the number of people saying Detroit will miss the playoffs (certainly possible) I'm going to make a bold prediction that Detroit will make the playoffs. Best five on five team last year and they definitely under-performed on special teams, even with the loss of Lidstrom they should be better this year.
    Last edited by RedWings13; 01-18-2013 at 01:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trueblue2 View Post
    And there's no shame in banging fat chicks. They're normally down to do anything and theyll build your confidence. Even Mike trout had to tear up the minors before he got called up to the show.

    EDIT: do not use tinder to tear up minors, you will go to jail.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    -St. Louis/New York Rangers finals with the Blues winning in 7.

    -The Leafs sit in 30th place with 7 games left in the season and go on a 7-0 run pushing them out of the running for a top 5 pick.

    -Malkin runs over everybody en route to his 2nd Hart and Art Ross in as many seasons.
    I agree

    lol bryz

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Staal plays on the third line and his 30 goal season was hugely shooting percentage driven (22% holy ****). He also didn't exactly have 90+ points. He also has posted more points than that year since then.

    Bergeron isn't really far off from his totals (9 points from career high), and suffered a major concussion in between them which has affected him. Also those totals came from when the NHL was more offensive.


    Backes benefited from shooting luck in 2010-2011 but that season wasn't really different than his previous 30 goal season (Also got some shooting luck here). He only had 8 less points last year without the shooting luck.

    All of these players are pretty much within the range of the year of their career highs. The most their down by is 7-8 points.

    You have Giroux down at least 20. If you said Giroux isn't a high 90 point scorer again, I might be able to buy it, but I don't really see a reason to say he's facing massive regression offensively, other than you don't like him.
    I didn't say that he would be dropping 20 points, I said that he would have a drop in points, but will become a good 2-way player. As in a consistent 80-85 point player, which is what Toews would be if he would be healthy for a whole season.

    And I don't see how I'm coming off as not liking Giroux, he's one of my favorite players in the league. I'm just saying it is more plausible that he becomes like Toews than he becomes like Crosby.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWings13 View Post
    By the number of people saying Detroit will miss the playoffs (certainly possible) I'm going to make a bold prediction that Detroit will make the playoffs. Best five on five team last year and they definitely under-performed on special teams, even with the loss of Lidstrom they should be better this year.
    I just can't think of anything bold for Detroit other than them missing the playoffs or Lidstrom un-retiring

    A not so bold prediction from me would be that they are going to be pretty much the same as last year. Oh well, we'll see.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by abourne13 View Post
    I just can't think of anything bold for Detroit other than them missing the playoffs or Lidstrom un-retiring

    A not so bold prediction from me would be that they are going to be pretty much the same as last year. Oh well, we'll see.
    My bold prediction for Detroit is Brunner putting up 35 points (60 points in a full season) and more than two rookies being on the team for the majority of the season which is extremely bold for Detroit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trueblue2 View Post
    And there's no shame in banging fat chicks. They're normally down to do anything and theyll build your confidence. Even Mike trout had to tear up the minors before he got called up to the show.

    EDIT: do not use tinder to tear up minors, you will go to jail.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedWings13 View Post
    By the number of people saying Detroit will miss the playoffs (certainly possible) I'm going to make a bold prediction that Detroit will make the playoffs. Best five on five team last year and they definitely under-performed on special teams, even with the loss of Lidstrom they should be better this year.
    I just think that losing Lidstrom, Stuart, Holmstrom, and Hudler is going to hurt them a pretty good amount. Sure they added Samuelsson and Tootoo...but that just isn't enough. I think their defense is going to be very interesting this year.

  15. #60
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    Iggy/Perry/Getzlaf/Lu will be traded to _____________ for ___________

    You finish it.

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