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Thread: Time to tank?

  1. #151
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    It sure was a risk worth taking when you consider what we gave up which was complete garbage outside of Ian White. You won't see any deals like that happening anytime soon again. Daryl Sutter either forgot to take his meds that day or took too many of them. Sure Dion isn't the defencemen we thought we'd get, not even close really, but you make that deal at the time 10 times out of 10.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    It sure was a risk worth taking when you consider what we gave up which was complete garbage outside of Ian White. You won't see any deals like that happening anytime soon again. Daryl Sutter either forgot to take his meds that day or took too many of them. Sure Dion isn't the defencemen we thought we'd get, not even close really, but you make that deal at the time 10 times out of 10.
    Agreed. Exactly, that was a great opportunity by Burke that didn't work out. A similar opportunity might have existed with Suban if that situation really went south but it didn't.

    But a similar example might be Paul Stastny.

    If the Leafs could get Stastny for the following:

    Liles (Colorado boy) + David Steckel +Nikolai Kulemin would I do that?

    I think so. If I didn't have to give up Kulemin but merely MacArthur instead how likely am I now?

  3. #153
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    I doubt they want Liles back, but why not offer Bozak. They lose a centre but get a pretty good 3rd line guy that puts up some points. He went to a college or uni near there i think. They lose the cap hit and can re-sign O'Reilly to a lesser deal and not lose any production. I wouldn't trade Kulemin though, in that specific deal you mentioned but if they wanted Liles i wouldn't complain.

    Bozak and a 2nd is about as high i would go, but that most likely won't get it done. Taking into account how bad they need players and winger i would try and squeeze Mac into that deal and hold some of his cash here. Bozak, Mac, and a 2nd gives them two solid but unspectacular players that can fill top-6 roles but slide back into 3rd line roles when they get healthy.

  4. #154
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    Statsny's not a guy I'd target. He's proved the last few years that he isn't worth taking that contract on. You really do want to get bang for the buck we'd be spending on him and he probably if the last couple years are an indication wouldn't give us that. I'd be more interested in how ugly this O'Reilly situation gets. He either bites the bullett and takes a lesser deal like Subban or he sits out until he gets traded. He's a hell of a player. Better than Statsny and might come a tad cheaper since he's just coming off an ELC. I think Statsny's close to 6 mill if not 6. I'll capgeek it after this post.

    EDIT: He's a 6.6 cap hit. Faaaaaaaaaaack that!
    Last edited by KingerSox; 01-30-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Statsny's not a guy I'd target. He's proved the last few years that he isn't worth taking that contract on. You really do want to get bang for the buck we'd be spending on him and he probably if the last couple years are an indication wouldn't give us that. I'd be more interested in how ugly this O'Reilly situation gets. He either bites the bullett and takes a lesser deal like Subban or he sits out until he gets traded. He's a hell of a player. Better than Statsny and might come a tad cheaper since he's just coming off an ELC. I think Statsny's close to 6 mill if not 6. I'll capgeek it after this post.

    EDIT: He's a 6.6 cap hit. Faaaaaaaaaaack that!
    Agreed, I take O'Reily or forgot about Colorado. Stasny just isn't worth the cap hit IMO. As far as all this Phaneuf BS, like a few of you said already, the deal was great at the time and had everyone jumping for joy(myself included), but the party was short lived. Missed nets after missed nets, getting burnt time and time again and sloppy play is just getting old. His point totals might be decent, but when your getting the ice time he gets and the opportunity he's given, it's not that difficult to add up. His leadership has been poor imo, as I can't see a team with good leadership collapsing like the Leafs did last year--fell right off a cliff. There's few bone crunching hits or fist a cuffs either to prove he's willing to do anything and everything to lead this club. Everyone agrees he is overpaid and and using that money to bring in other assets would obviously benefit the Leafs moreso then him soaking up that cap space.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Statsny's not a guy I'd target. He's proved the last few years that he isn't worth taking that contract on. You really do want to get bang for the buck we'd be spending on him and he probably if the last couple years are an indication wouldn't give us that. I'd be more interested in how ugly this O'Reilly situation gets. He either bites the bullett and takes a lesser deal like Subban or he sits out until he gets traded. He's a hell of a player. Better than Statsny and might come a tad cheaper since he's just coming off an ELC. I think Statsny's close to 6 mill if not 6. I'll capgeek it after this post.

    EDIT: He's a 6.6 cap hit. Faaaaaaaaaaack that!
    O'Reilly will cost significant assets via trade, Stastny will cost very very little imo.

    I'm not saying we should definately go after Stastny but its worth a look.

    I'm not so worried about cap room anyway (especially with the amnesty buyout)

  7. #157
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    Statsny wouldn't cost very little. I think it's best to stay away from plan B or C and wait until a good A option is avaliable. Statsny ain't A. We may need a centre but there's no point in trading for an overpaid underachieving centre just so we can sit here and say we got a centre. We have to be smart. You make the Statsny deal and I guarentee people will want him run out of town in less than a full season. I don't think he's bad but I don't want his 6.6 million dollars on my roster considering what he's offered lately in his career by way of his play.

    We'd look extremely dumb for getting him and then using a compliance buyout on him if/when he doesn't work out.

  8. #158
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    This isn't even really against what your saying but tell me waht you think of these responses/

    Statsny wouldn't cost very little.
    I think he would. For all the reasons mentioned. His performance has declined, he has a big contract and Colorado has 2 other top centers and there are rumours he's unhappy (one I read a few weeks ago).




    I think it's best to stay away from plan B or C and wait until a good A option is avaliable.
    This can make sense but I think you can do some stuff simutaneously. And how realistic is plan A (which for most Leaf fan is an elite young center or Ryan Getzlaf neither of which are likely)




    A. We may need a centre but there's no point in trading for an overpaid underachieving centre just so we can sit here and say we got a centre.We have to be smart.
    Of course thats true. But it might be smart to gamble on a guy who can be a top line center at his best. We're not doing it simply to have a center but because his market value is at an all time low.

    You make the Statsny deal and I guarentee people will want him run out of town in less than a full season
    Unless he performs well and he will be given a useful tool called Phil Kessel to play with and perhaps bring him back to great heigh. If he doesn't yet, he'll be booed and eventually run out of tow.
    . I don't think he's bad but I don't want his 6.6 million dollars on my roster considering what he's offered lately in his career by way of his play.
    This is fair but what are we doing with the cap space anyway?

    We're trying to get high impact players who will be part of the core. Why not try to find a guy like tha and use some cap space as an asset. I'd rathr use the money than not (its only 2 seasons max) or use it on definnatel mediocre guys like Tim Connolly.


    We'd look extremely dumb for getting him and then using a compliance buyout on him if/when he doesn't work out.
    I don't think it would look dumb. Does Phaneuf trade look dumb? I don't think so, I think it was a trade you had to make that unfortunately didn't work out. Also I don't give a **** about public perception. That's been part of the problem here for years.

  9. #159
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    Well in response I guess here goes..

    As for him costing very little I don't buy it. He won't go for anywhere's close to a ransom but the Av's aren't going to just peddle him to get rid of him. There will be 1 if not 2 attractive futures in a deal for him in my opinion. I don't think we're in a position to trade that for a "what if" with a massive cap hit.

    As for plan A/plan B stuff. We tried plan B last year in Connolly and we got burned. He's currently a PPG player in the AHL... good for him lol. I know Statsny wouldn't end up like that but there's no point tieing up money in a big question mark. If we trade for him and he flops as is probably expected then we get NO value for that guy from anyone. That goes to my compliance buyout point. We would absolutely look dumb to trade assets for a guy with a 6.6 cap hit just to buy him out. Yes we have the money but that would look EXTEMELY poor on management and ownership Not just public perception. We'd be laughed at harder than we already are. Enough circus acts and jokes have gone on with this team it's just time to be smart about these thing. The draft looks like the best way we're going to end up with that #1 C and yes that's not a given, Getzlaf hitting FA isn't a given either. But you don't rush to make move just say OK we made a move.

    I guess it comes down to whether or not you think he'll preform and he's given me no indication over the past year and a half two years that he will. We forget that when we traded for Dion he was on a decline in Calgary too and he never got back to where he was. When you're batting 0.000 on those types of transactions you might be a little more redisent to make another deal. Especially in this case because the Av's will not take the BS package we sent Calgary for Phaneuf.

  10. #160
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    What does Colorado have to gain by selling low on Stastny? Knowing that money's not an issue, there's no upside in Colorado trading him for anything less than they want

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seguin View Post
    What does Colorado have to gain by selling low on Stastny? Knowing that money's not an issue, there's no upside in Colorado trading him for anything less than they want
    The issue is his value gets even lower.

    They have 3 centers. Stastny may crater this year and become a buyout candidate. The option is to get out of his contract and get some useful pieces and cap room and not deal with a potential headache.

  12. #162
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    Stastny has declined mightily. I wouldn't want him here.
    As for O'Reilly sure but he's an RFA right now and I don't know what is going to happen in that front.


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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    He was already in decline in Calgary for two years before we got him. Optimized did a good job pointing out overpaid players and market value ect. But just because other teams make mistakes doesn't mean we should get a free pass on mistakes. I am aware we didn't sign the Dion Phaneuf contract so I don't hold that against the team. We have however signed 2 or 3 dumb deals. Phaneuf gets alot of heat and he does deserve the heat. When you're paid like that no matter who signed the contract and when you wear the C the heat will come. Especially when you get burnt more times than often, float back when you get caught pinching ect. He's a very flawed player despite some of the positives he brings. Even in saying that I'm not on his back as much as others I just try to be realistic about what I'm seeing when I watch him play. He's not impressive. He's not awful either.
    I agree about Dion but I still don't feel like all the blame should be pointed towards him.
    If you look at the team and guys he's played with since being here it's pretty bad.

    No good starting goalie. No #1 Center. No true defensive partner to take away some of the minutes he gets.
    It's not all on him.


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  14. #164
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    How much money they do nothing out of the gate and with 10 games to go they blow their top 5 pick. Boyd Devereaux all over again.
    I knew I should have bet you that the Leafs would come sprinting out of the gate...there is no pressure on them and they are playing that way and that's why they are winning. You watch, come March when they are still in the thick of things and the pressure grows the team will fall apart and end up finishing 10th in the East.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    I knew I should have bet you that the Leafs would come sprinting out of the gate...there is no pressure on them and they are playing that way and that's why they are winning. You watch, come March when they are still in the thick of things and the pressure grows the team will fall apart and end up finishing 10th in the East.
    And round and round it goes. They win a few, you say you should have bet me, they look terrible for a few, you don't say a word, they beat the worst team in the league, you say should have bet me again. The Leafs are sprinting? It's so early in the season there's 5 points separating the 11th overall team and the 30th overall team. Hell, if they lost last night they'd be looking at a top ten pick, instead, they're 12th in the NHL. You're getting way too ahead of yourself. They just beat an awful team.

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