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Thread: Time to tank?

  1. #91
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    Now back to hockey talk.

    If the Leafs are going to trade Kessel, they better make that desicion quickly. If the desicion yes, then they should peddle him now as opposed to waiting for the deadline. In this shortened and condensed season they will be able to get just as much now as they will then.

    Contending teams can't afford to wait it out and evaluate like they do in other seasons. Wouldn't surprise me if they got more for him now then they would later.

    That being said, I don't dislike him as a player, although he seems overwhelmed in Toronto.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIUMPHATOR View Post
    Now back to hockey talk.

    If the Leafs are going to trade Kessel, they better make that desicion quickly. If the desicion yes, then they should peddle him now as opposed to waiting for the deadline. In this shortened and condensed season they will be able to get just as much now as they will then.

    Contending teams can't afford to wait it out and evaluate like they do in other seasons. Wouldn't surprise me if they got more for him now then they would later.

    That being said, I don't dislike him as a player, although he seems overwhelmed in Toronto.
    Agreed. I'm still torn on Kessel. Have to feel for the guy that he's never really been given that #1 center to feed him the puck and he's still produced. He's not my favourite guy and if this team doesn't plan on bringing in a #1 center or is unable to, I think he may as well be dealt( assuming the return warrants it). This offseason should be one of the best for buyers as alot of teams are trying to cut guys loose, buy guys out and should result in a decent crop. Hopefully Nonis has a good game plan in place

  3. #93
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    First of all, kessel is a great player. He scored 82 points last season. Last time i remember the leafs having a proliphic goal score was mogilny at the end of this career. The leafs can not and shame on anyone who would suggest trading him. Furthermore how could you even suggest tanking a season for a draft pick. I don't know about you guys but i enjoy watching the leafs win. I don't care about draft pick because as far as i can recall this team has always been bad drafters. Wheres luke schenn? Thank god we got rid of that guy. He was an overhyped plug. Either way season is not done and you do not trade the best scorer to walk in to toronto in 10 years.

  4. #94
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Miller probabkly stands on his head again tonight just like he does every game against the Leafs. The Sabers announced that Grigs will not be returning to junior.

  5. #95
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    I'm all for the rebuild being done properly and in all likelyhood that means trading Kessel and others. But the time to trade Kessel is now as opposed to next year when he has no term left on his deal at the end of the season. Despite no goals yet this season his value is as high as it'll get now and until the deadline. Nonis and Co. have some hard decisions to make before that deadline in April. I'm afraid we may not be able to sell a rebuild to the new ownership and we'll be spinning our wheels the same way we have since the 2nd last lockout.

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    I know there's been a lot of talk (for a long time) about the Leafs looking for a #1 C.... Has there ever been any chance of moving Kessel there ? He played some center in Boston and while his faceoff numbers aren't spectacular (between 40-48%), with some formal training at the NHL level I'm sure he can at least keep up around 48%. I'm not exactly advocating it, since I think players like him are bet suited on the wing but its a possibility that hasn't really been explored in Toronto

  7. #97
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seguin View Post
    I know there's been a lot of talk (for a long time) about the Leafs looking for a #1 C.... Has there ever been any chance of moving Kessel there ? He played some center in Boston and while his faceoff numbers aren't spectacular (between 40-48%), with some formal training at the NHL level I'm sure he can at least keep up around 48%. I'm not exactly advocating it, since I think players like him are bet suited on the wing but its a possibility that hasn't really been explored in Toronto
    The Leafs need a #1 center that can play both ends of the rink. It's easier to get away with a winger that only plays one end, can't have a center doing that. If the Leafs are going to move Kessel, it needs to be for a player who will be the face of the franchise for 3-5 years at least. Ryan Strome, Jonathan Huberdeau, Sean Couturier type of player

  8. #98
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    Here's the thing. If we deal Kessel, I also expect us to deal anyone else of value.

    I expect there to be a firesale. It makes no sense if you deal a 25 year old Phil Kessel who is entering his prime now, and then not dealing guys like Grabo, Lupul, Phaneuf, Liles etc.

    I think we only deal Phil if there is a complete firesale, and honestly I wouldn't be opposed to it one bit.

    If we could get Tarasenko + for Phil, that would be unreal lol.

  9. #99
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Why not deal Kessel, Grabovski, Phaneuf and Lupul...rip this team down to nothing and start the rebuild. Use the picks to draft a core and do this rebuild properly. Draft a future #1 center and starting goalie in the 2013 draft.

  10. #100
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    Good luck selling that to ownership Lavy. Most of our fans think Grabo, Lupul and company are part of the answere here. Don't put me in that group. I want the team nuked. I like some of our drafted players that have yet to play as 3rd/4th line answeres down the road but dropping the nuclear bomb would ensure this team 2-3 years of elite young talent like Rielly and Gardiner to add to our team. We may have a keeper in Kadri now too now that the old regime is gone and he's appreciated for his skillset now. He's been good.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Good luck selling that to ownership Lavy. Most of our fans think Grabo, Lupul and company are part of the answere here. Don't put me in that group. I want the team nuked. I like some of our drafted players that have yet to play as 3rd/4th line answeres down the road but dropping the nuclear bomb would ensure this team 2-3 years of elite young talent like Rielly and Gardiner to add to our team. We may have a keeper in Kadri now too now that the old regime is gone and he's appreciated for his skillset now. He's been good.
    Great analysis. The only thing is that I'm not sure about nuking. That means gutting this team with one swing of the sword. If (and that's a big if-we have no idea what new ownership wants) they decide to rebuild, it should be piece by piece all season, at the draft, and in the summer. I don't feel teams ever get true value in a fire sale.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    Why not deal Kessel, Grabovski, Phaneuf and Lupul...rip this team down to nothing and start the rebuild. Use the picks to draft a core and do this rebuild properly. Draft a future #1 center and starting goalie in the 2013 draft.
    Because ripping a team completely to shreds isn't always the best way to do things especially if your not getting great value.

    When you have a firesale often you get underpaid on assets.

    Also, all the players you want to trade will eventually need to be replaced. Some of them especially the younger ones might be worth keeping if you can get them locked in.

    If you trade Kessell, Phaneuf and Lupul and Grabovski (I'm not necessarily opposed to trading any for the right price) you now need to find 2 more top wingers, another top pairing dman (Phaneuf is a 2 in this league), and a #2 center in addition to the amount of holes you have now.

    Tearing it all down isn't always the best move.

    Even the Oilers didn't tear it completely down keeping Ryan Whitney and Ales Hemsky as examples because they didn't get enough value/keeping them made more sense.

    Teams love pouncing in the water when a team is bleeding. If you start announcing a fire sale your value is significantly hindered.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Good luck selling that to ownership Lavy. Most of our fans think Grabo, Lupul and company are part of the answere here. Don't put me in that group. I want the team nuked. I like some of our drafted players that have yet to play as 3rd/4th line answeres down the road but dropping the nuclear bomb would ensure this team 2-3 years of elite young talent like Rielly and Gardiner to add to our team. We may have a keeper in Kadri now too now that the old regime is gone and he's appreciated for his skillset now. He's been good.
    I don't get why you can't rebuild around younger players while keeping some of your core guys now.

    Its not like we're Calgary and our core guys are over 30. If you resign Kesell, he's here in his prime until a rebuild is complete (assuming its 5 years if its more another GM gets fired)

  14. #104
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Kessel isn't the kind of player you build a contender around...Kessel is a complimentary player...you build teams around Towes/Kane type players...complete players...not 1 trick ponies

  15. #105
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Because ripping a team completely to shreds isn't always the best way to do things especially if your not getting great value.

    When you have a firesale often you get underpaid on assets.

    Also, all the players you want to trade will eventually need to be replaced. Some of them especially the younger ones might be worth keeping if you can get them locked in.

    If you trade Kessell, Phaneuf and Lupul and Grabovski (I'm not necessarily opposed to trading any for the right price) you now need to find 2 more top wingers, another top pairing dman (Phaneuf is a 2 in this league), and a #2 center in addition to the amount of holes you have now.

    Tearing it all down isn't always the best move.

    Even the Oilers didn't tear it completely down keeping Ryan Whitney and Ales Hemsky as examples because they didn't get enough value/keeping them made more sense.

    Teams love pouncing in the water when a team is bleeding. If you start announcing a fire sale your value is significantly hindered.
    Please show me an example where the Leafs have ripped a team down to shreds and this didn't work?

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