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  1. #301
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    I felt Zooks did a good job on the 3rd line and 4th line while also playing some PP. There is no rule in my mind that 3rd line and 4th line players have to be unskilled big grinders. 4th line players on this team often only play 4-6 minutes a game. I'd much rather have 3 skilled lines than 1 or 2. Zooks may not be the fastest player but I felt his quickness was under rated. He was not slow. As far as toughness goes the guy threw checks and knocked some pretty big guys down. He showed more toughness than several bigger players on this team. At the end of the day this game is about scoring more goals than the other team. Zooks was never a minus player. Not as a Ranger. Not as a Whale. I just do not go along with the idea that you can only have skilled players on the top 2 lines and grinders everywhere else. Zooks usually played 3rd and 4th line yet still was a good for a point every other game. We can not keep looking away from skill players and then wonder why we don't score more or win in the playoffs.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I felt Zooks did a good job on the 3rd line and 4th line while also playing some PP. There is no rule in my mind that 3rd line and 4th line players have to be unskilled big grinders. 4th line players on this team often only play 4-6 minutes a game. I'd much rather have 3 skilled lines than 1 or 2. Zooks may not be the fastest player but I felt his quickness was under rated. He was not slow. As far as toughness goes the guy threw checks and knocked some pretty big guys down. He showed more toughness than several bigger players on this team. At the end of the day this game is about scoring more goals than the other team. Zooks was never a minus player. Not as a Ranger. Not as a Whale. I just do not go along with the idea that you can only have skilled players on the top 2 lines and grinders everywhere else. Zooks usually played 3rd and 4th line yet still was a good for a point every other game. We can not keep looking away from skill players and then wonder why we don't score more or win in the playoffs.
    I agree but Zuks isn't gonna be a guy you have out against Crosby and Malkin. That's the problem, when you have your money tied up in the top two lines your bottom two lines end up having to consist of players that if they get caught out with the other teams top line will make the best of it and not get scored on. Ideally you would want to have 4 lines of scoring players but cap wise that's never gonna happen, that's why in this era you have to have responsible players on your bottom two lines because if you are playing an away game that's the matchup you get, your third line vs their top line. Zucs isn't gonna shut down anyone, he's a sparky guy and he did what he could here but he wasn't going to get any better than he was unless he got atleast one of these traits, faster, tougher or harder to play against. He was a shootout specialist here and not much more.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsi View Post
    I agree but Zuks isn't gonna be a guy you have out against Crosby and Malkin. That's the problem, when you have your money tied up in the top two lines your bottom two lines end up having to consist of players that if they get caught out with the other teams top line will make the best of it and not get scored on. Ideally you would want to have 4 lines of scoring players but cap wise that's never gonna happen, that's why in this era you have to have responsible players on your bottom two lines because if you are playing an away game that's the matchup you get, your third line vs their top line. Zucs isn't gonna shut down anyone, he's a sparky guy and he did what he could here but he wasn't going to get any better than he was unless he got atleast one of these traits, faster, tougher or harder to play against. He was a shootout specialist here and not much more.

    I respectfully disagree. Any player (Zooks) that puts up a point every other game is more than a shootout specialist. Shootouts do not even count as points. Zooks was one of the top Rangers in points produced per minutes played. Zooks was as tough as most the players on the team. Did you ever see Zooks back down from anyone? I also disagree with this notion that you have to have your 3rd line or 4th line go up against other teams 1st lines. We have a lot of skill on our first 2 lines. If we don't have confidence that they can go up against other teams first lines than that is strange. Crosby and Malkin play on 1 team. Few teams can put together a line like Crosby and Malkin. You are buying in to the logic that 3rd and 4th lines have to be grinders tough guys and defensive players. We could have 3 skilled lines and 1 defensive/tough line under the cap. We could have had a 3rd line of Hags-Mitchell-Zooks. Then a 4th line of Rupp-Boyle-Pyatt. Skill is not an evil word and grind is not a magical word.
    Or we could have flipped Boyle/Mitchell.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Any player (Zooks) that puts up a point every other game is more than a shootout specialist. Shootouts do not even count as points. Zooks was one of the top Rangers in points produced per minutes played. Zooks was as tough as most the players on the team. Did you ever see Zooks back down from anyone? I also disagree with this notion that you have to have your 3rd line or 4th line go up against other teams 1st lines. We have a lot of skill on our first 2 lines. If we don't have confidence that they can go up against other teams first lines than that is strange. Crosby and Malkin play on 1 team. Few teams can put together a line like Crosby and Malkin. You are buying in to the logic that 3rd and 4th lines have to be grinders tough guys and defensive players. We could have 3 skilled lines and 1 defensive/tough line under the cap. We could have had a 3rd line of Hags-Mitchell-Zooks. Then a 4th line of Rupp-Boyle-Pyatt. Skill is not an evil word and grind is not a magical word.
    Or we could have flipped Boyle/Mitchell.
    In away games it's not up to us to decide who goes up against who after a whistle. The opposing team will throw their best line against one of our weaker ones because they have last change. A line of Hags Mitchell and Zuks would get scored on by top lines more than a hooker on a cruise ship. Also, that's not an offensive line or a defensive line,
    Last edited by bsi; 01-30-2013 at 06:55 PM.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsi View Post
    In away games it's not up to us to decide who goes up against who after a whistle. The opposing team will throw their best line against one of our weaker ones because they have last change. A line of Hags Mitchell and Zuks would get scored on by top lines more than a hooker on a cruise ship. Also, that's not an offensive line or a defensive line,
    I bet a line of Hags-Mitchell-Zooks would better against top lines than the no threat to score third lines. I also bet that they often would not even go against the top lines. None of those 3 were minus players. These guys have to be playing against somebody whether at home or on the road. Besides teams can change on the fly. It doesn't matter home or on the road usually our top lines play 20 plus minutes a game. The 3rd line plays around 14 minutes a game and the 4th line barely plays.

    We are going to have to respectfully disagree that the only way to go is little skill all grind bottom 6 players. It actually doesn't even make sense. We do not control all matchups but if we always want our 3rd line against the first line of other clubs and they always want their 3rd line against our first line then who would be fighting the matchups? Would the world end if we had our first line go up against another teams first line? If you want low skill all grind line to be called the 3rd line you can do that and make the line I spoke about the 4th line. The bottom line is you can't complain of a lack of scoring if you make half of your forwards all grind low skill players. That is 50% of the forwards. Slats and the Oilers did not have that mentality. Al Arbor and the Isles did not have that mentality. If you want a defensive line than make one but not 2 especially when they are not even that great defensively.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I bet a line of Hags-Mitchell-Zooks would better against top lines than the no threat to score third lines. I also bet that they often would not even go against the top lines. None of those 3 were minus players. These guys have to be playing against somebody whether at home or on the road. Besides teams can change on the fly. It doesn't matter home or on the road usually our top lines play 20 plus minutes a game. The 3rd line plays around 14 minutes a game and the 4th line barely plays.

    We are going to have to respectfully disagree that the only way to go is little skill all grind bottom 6 players. It actually doesn't even make sense. We do not control all matchups but if we always want our 3rd line against the first line of other clubs and they always want their 3rd line against our first line then who would be fighting the matchups? Would the world end if we had our first line go up against another teams first line? If you want low skill all grind line to be called the 3rd line you can do that and make the line I spoke about the 4th line. The bottom line is you can't complain of a lack of scoring if you make half of your forwards all grind low skill players. That is 50% of the forwards. Slats and the Oilers did not have that mentality. Al Arbor and the Isles did not have that mentality. If you want a defensive line than make one but not 2 especially when they are not even that great defensively.
    Slats and Al didn't have a salary cap. The complaint of lack of scoring is directed at guys like Hagelin, Stepan, and Boyle. All guys who should be complimenting our top line. Zuccarello isn't an offensive or a defensive player in the NHL. Sure he had a half a point a game for the short time he played here but he was given all the pp time because of his hands and our PP was terrible. He's not fast enough to be St.Louis or gritty enough to be Hagelin, he's just a little short(no pun intended) in all categories except shooting and puck handling and especially weak at getting to the dirty areas around the net. I know you like him but realistically he did all he could do in the league, he wasn't 19 when he played here he was a mature NHL rookie. If he was able to be the difference maker you say he is he'd still be here because he had ample opportunity on the powerplay and he could have been a cheap LW option for this team and really he still could be if the team felt he could help.

    Also I don't think lower lines have to have grinders and defensive players but with a salary cap in place you can't afford to have 3 lines of 30 goal scorers, you're lucky to get two or three for your top two lines and that costs you a quarter of your salary cap. Add in a good top 4 D and a goalie and there's no money left for high skilled players on the bottom 6.
    Last edited by bsi; 01-30-2013 at 08:20 PM.

  7. #307
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    Matt Gilroy is dressing tonight, Bickel playing forward and Eminger the scratch. Hope Gilroy can stick here, I think of the three of them guys he has the better chance to make an impact on this team. Torts will need to give him 2 or 3 games to get adjusted though, if he plays once it's a waste of time.

  8. #308
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    Also...it appears as though Kreider hurt his foot in a game in the AHL back on Jan 5 so hopefully that was the reason he wasn't able to be as effective as he was last year. He's skating again so hopefully, especially with Callahan hurt, he's back in the lineup soon.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsi View Post
    Also...it appears as though Kreider hurt his foot in a game in the AHL back on Jan 5 so hopefully that was the reason he wasn't able to be as effective as he was last year. He's skating again so hopefully, especially with Callahan hurt, he's back in the lineup soon.
    Thanks for letting us know about the injury. I like playing Gilroy upfront. He can skate and has good hands. If he is given a chance to relax and create he might surprise us with a few goals.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  10. #310
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    Too much offensive firepower. We can't even come close to matching it.

  11. #311
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    and we take another ****ing penalty. It will be 2-0 soon enough haha

  12. #312
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    Well, this has to be called a bad start... all around.
    It's never too early to start believing in miracles.
    Just Sayin'

  13. #313
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    The greatest power play of all time.

  14. #314
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    I like when Malkin gets dumped!!!!

  15. #315
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    The golden children of the NHL get away with everything.
    It's never too early to start believing in miracles.
    Just Sayin'

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