Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 7 of 23 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 332
  1. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Hoboken ,NJ
    Posts
    2,016
    vCash
    1500
    i think Kreieder was riding the bench do to bad penalties

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    22,153
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I often get frustrated by the teams system, lines and minute allocation but a win is a win. Gabs had a huge night. Hope to see more minutes for Nash/Hags/Kreider soon.
    Yeah i don't know if that's because of Tortorella's emphasis on the defensive end.

    It has to be because with Hagelin's and Kreider's speed they should be out there more.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,984
    vCash
    500
    Kreider's been a defensive liability. He'll figure it out eventually but we need him to help us out right now. He's scratched tonight and he could potentially be sent down.
    Last edited by fingerbang; 01-24-2013 at 01:41 PM.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    7,300
    vCash
    1500
    Kreider hasn't had a good year. It often happens to college players as they get used to the grind of a long AHL/NHL season. He'll be alright but I expect he'll be staying with the team but not playing until he gets it in practice. Rangers traded Chad Kolarik today as well for Ben Ferriero. Not sure if that means anything but Ferriero is Tort's type of player.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34,972
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Kreider's been a defensive liability. He'll figure it out eventually but we need him to help us out right now. He's scratched tonight and he could potentially be sent down.
    Quote Originally Posted by bsi View Post
    Kreider hasn't had a good year. It often happens to college players as they get used to the grind of a long AHL/NHL season. He'll be alright but I expect he'll be staying with the team but not playing until he gets it in practice. Rangers traded Chad Kolarik today as well for Ben Ferriero. Not sure if that means anything but Ferriero is Tort's type of player.

    I do not like this much. I think Kreider will learn more in the NHL like many high draft picks that may only score 5-10 goals in their first season. He can learn from being around other NHL players as well as in practice. I also do not like this Torts type of player stuff. It seems that skill players are not thought of as Torts types of players but guys that grind grind grind are. The best coaches in the world say how can I put my players in the position to succeed best not how can I change certain players for my system. That's exactly what ESPN was speaking about today in regards to a current NBA coach that used to coach the Knicks.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    7,300
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I do not like this much. I think Kreider will learn more in the NHL like many high draft picks that may only score 5-10 goals in their first season. He can learn from being around other NHL players as well as in practice. I also do not like this Torts type of player stuff. It seems that skill players are not thought of as Torts types of players but guys that grind grind grind are. The best coaches in the world say how can I put my players in the position to succeed best not how can I change certain players for my system. That's exactly what ESPN was speaking about today in regards to a current NBA coach that used to coach the Knicks.
    If Kreider is gonna be here and not able to play on the top two lines he's gotta figure out how to play hard on the third line and be defensively sound. He's better off getting big minutes in the AHL again and building his confidence instead of being benched in the NHL for poor defensive decisions. I mean if he can't add offensively and he can't add defensively he's not really helping this team win.

    Thing is Kreider knows what's expected of him, he's played here in the playoffs. For some reason he showed up to the AHL not ready for the season as he's not really had a good year to start and personally I think the only reason he made the Rangers was that Tortorella assumed he knew the system and it's a short season, because he didn't earn it in the AHL this year, if that were the measuring stick Newbury would have made it instead. Really having played all year he should have had an advantage over the current NHL guys like Hagelin, Pyatt etc, but he hasn't played as well as those guys. My problem with keeping him around is that if he's not ready, which he appears not to be, we burn a year of his entry level contract if he plays in the NHL. I know he'll be good some day but this might be a necessary wake up call for him that everything isn't going to be handed to him.

    When I was talking about a "Torts style player" I was talking about a guy that fits the third line role, I mean we've lost some of our better penalty killers, shot blockers and forecheckers in Prust, Anisimov, and Dubinsky. So far Halpern hasn't been the best replacement and ofcourse Asham is there pretty much for the fighting. Pyatt has played well but I think we need a little more sandpaper and intensity on our third line. There was a good quote the other day when someone said that the Rangers third line would suffer this year as if you were to make a trade of Dubinsky, Anisimov, Prust for Halpern, Asham, and Pyatt people would think you lost your mind, and that's what happened to our bottom 6. The key to that was the hope that Kreider would show up ready to play like he did in playoffs last year and either him or Hagelin would take a spot on the third line, but it looks like Hagelin is the only one of those two that showed up ready this year. I love Kreider's skill level, but he has to man up.
    Last edited by bsi; 01-24-2013 at 04:31 PM.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34,972
    vCash
    1500
    I'm tired of the grind grind grind. I'm also tired of losing good skill players to injury over shot blocks. Kreider might gain from the AHL or he might not. He was there for most the season so far. I have seen several good players only score a few goals in their first season but their teams stuck with them and they had much better 2nd and third years. It is good to be good defensively but Torts emphasis on defense reminds me of the past NJ Devils trapping teams. They won a lot of games but were boring as heck to watch. If I was a skill player I would prefer to play on a team like the Kings or Penguins where you have the freedom to create and make some mistakes occasionally. This team has as much firepower as any team in the league but we play for 1 goal wins instead of trying to blow teams away with superior firepower. I'm at a place where I want to be entertained. Gabs, Richards, Nash, Hags, etc have so much skill. I just want to see them have more room to be creative.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    7,300
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I'm tired of the grind grind grind. I'm also tired of losing good skill players to injury over shot blocks. Kreider might gain from the AHL or he might not. He was there for most the season so far. I have seen several good players only score a few goals in their first season but their teams stuck with them and they had much better 2nd and third years. It is good to be good defensively but Torts emphasis on defense reminds me of the past NJ Devils trapping teams. They won a lot of games but were boring as heck to watch. If I was a skill player I would prefer to play on a team like the Kings or Penguins where you have the freedom to create and make some mistakes occasionally. This team has as much firepower as any team in the league but we play for 1 goal wins instead of trying to blow teams away with superior firepower. I'm at a place where I want to be entertained. Gabs, Richards, Nash, Hags, etc have so much skill. I just want to see them have more room to be creative.
    Well our top two lines are skill, our 3rd line ideally is a combination of responsible players who can also score. It's the basic template for successful teams. I don't think that Gaborik, Nash, Richards and Hagelin were being held back last night by any stretch of the imagination, I thought they were given free reign to do as they wanted. Even Pyatt and Callahan were offensively pushing it. Last night was entertaining as hell, but if you notice it was when our 3rd and 4th lines got out that we were pinned in our own end, that's the problem. A guy like Kreider has to be better defensively so the puck can gain some momentum the other way so they can get some pressure in the other end. If he doesn't do the job in our own end it'll stay there and that I'm sure is what's frustrating to you as it is to me. Pyatt being moved up last night definately helped getting that line going.
    Having said all that I don't think Kreider is about to be sent down, just yet anyway. Calling up Newbury is just creating time for Tortorella to work with Kreider and mold him into the type of player he needs to be to help this team go to the cup final. I think this is just a way to teach Kreider what Torts wants without sending him down. Hopefully he reacts the right way to this.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,386
    vCash
    1500
    looks to me like #61 is the real deal

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    7,300
    vCash
    1500

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by runnermjr1296 View Post
    looks to me like #61 is the real deal
    Was never any doubt in my mind. He opens up ice for Gaborik too, when them three are together it's hard to defend against, who do you cover? Would like to see Hagelin get some scoring though.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34,972
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bsi View Post
    If Kreider is gonna be here and not able to play on the top two lines he's gotta figure out how to play hard on the third line and be defensively sound. He's better off getting big minutes in the AHL again and building his confidence instead of being benched in the NHL for poor defensive decisions. I mean if he can't add offensively and he can't add defensively he's not really helping this team win.

    Thing is Kreider knows what's expected of him, he's played here in the playoffs. For some reason he showed up to the AHL not ready for the season as he's not really had a good year to start and personally I think the only reason he made the Rangers was that Tortorella assumed he knew the system and it's a short season, because he didn't earn it in the AHL this year, if that were the measuring stick Newbury would have made it instead. Really having played all year he should have had an advantage over the current NHL guys like Hagelin, Pyatt etc, but he hasn't played as well as those guys. My problem with keeping him around is that if he's not ready, which he appears not to be, we burn a year of his entry level contract if he plays in the NHL. I know he'll be good some day but this might be a necessary wake up call for him that everything isn't going to be handed to him.

    When I was talking about a "Torts style player" I was talking about a guy that fits the third line role, I mean we've lost some of our better penalty killers, shot blockers and forecheckers in Prust, Anisimov, and Dubinsky. So far Halpern hasn't been the best replacement and ofcourse Asham is there pretty much for the fighting. Pyatt has played well but I think we need a little more sandpaper and intensity on our third line. There was a good quote the other day when someone said that the Rangers third line would suffer this year as if you were to make a trade of Dubinsky, Anisimov, Prust for Halpern, Asham, and Pyatt people would think you lost your mind, and that's what happened to our bottom 6. The key to that was the hope that Kreider would show up ready to play like he did in playoffs last year and either him or Hagelin would take a spot on the third line, but it looks like Hagelin is the only one of those two that showed up ready this year. I love Kreider's skill level, but he has to man up.
    The NHL is a learning process. Sometimes kids show up and are good to go but sometimes they do not and have to mature. Mike Bossy was not strong defensively as a rookie or in his 2nd year. He did not hit nor block shots. Al Arbor was a guy who knew defense and hitting was important but he gave Bossy space. Gretzky played professional for years before the NHL but as a rookie he was not strong defensively. He did not hit or block shots. Sometimes you have to teach guys but also understand that many good skill players may not be Bob Gainey in their own end. If given coaching and encouragement they can learn they also need some patience as well. Shanny scored around 7 goals as a rookie but the Devils let him mature. Kreider has huge physical skills but he may never be more than a 30 goal scorer looking at his past. I'd rather work with him and build his confidence instead of trying to turn him in to a Brian Boyle.

    I do think this system dulls down skill players. A team with Nash, Richards, Gabs, Hags, MDZ, and McDonnah should not struggle on power plays or 5 on 3's for season after season. When I watched the Kings last playoff season I saw them take so many chances in their own end. It looked irresponsible to me after watching the Rangers but it was a lot more entertaining to watch and I think their players probably had more fun playing it.

    I'm not against Kreider going to the AHL. I'm just disappointed that so much emphasis is placed on grind grind grind, side board side board side board, and it leaves little room for individual creativity (never mind open ice).
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34,972
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by runnermjr1296 View Post
    looks to me like #61 is the real deal
    If you think he looks good now look at some of his highlights on youtube. The guy has made some really great breakaway and 1 on one moves in his career. So far he has shown glimpses. I hope we can see a lot more. I thought on the Team Canada that was stacked top to bottom that he was one of if not their best player in the past.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    22,153
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    I'm tired of the grind grind grind. I'm also tired of losing good skill players to injury over shot blocks. Kreider might gain from the AHL or he might not. He was there for most the season so far. I have seen several good players only score a few goals in their first season but their teams stuck with them and they had much better 2nd and third years. It is good to be good defensively but Torts emphasis on defense reminds me of the past NJ Devils trapping teams. They won a lot of games but were boring as heck to watch. If I was a skill player I would prefer to play on a team like the Kings or Penguins where you have the freedom to create and make some mistakes occasionally. This team has as much firepower as any team in the league but we play for 1 goal wins instead of trying to blow teams away with superior firepower. I'm at a place where I want to be entertained. Gabs, Richards, Nash, Hags, etc have so much skill. I just want to see them have more room to be creative.
    Yep the Rangers have too much skill at this point to be playing the games you mentioned. The constant grind, with 1 goal games, and when they are down 3-0 or 4-1 there is basically zero chance for them to come back because of the style of hockey they play (knowing that its difficult to come back from those scores regardless of the system but its seems like with the Rangers especially). Everything is difficult in the offensive zone unless a guy like Gaborik creates or Richards finds some space.

    The other question is when is this PP gonna improve?

    They brought Nash in, Richards is getting more time at the point, and they have skill guys like Hags who in open space could and should be an asset and yet they still can't score.

    I know it's early and i am still confident they are without a doubt a top 4 seed in the EC but i don't like how hard our style of hockey is sometimes. We ran out of gas last year because the accumulation of close drag out games really got to us.

    I know this team is built on defense, goaltending, two way play, blocking shots, etc etc but the personnel change offensively should allow us to do some different things and maybe take some of that pressure off of those said strengths.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    7,300
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SLY WILLIAMS View Post
    The NHL is a learning process. Sometimes kids show up and are good to go but sometimes they do not and have to mature. Mike Bossy was not strong defensively as a rookie or in his 2nd year. He did not hit nor block shots. Al Arbor was a guy who knew defense and hitting was important but he gave Bossy space. Gretzky played professional for years before the NHL but as a rookie he was not strong defensively. He did not hit or block shots. Sometimes you have to teach guys but also understand that many good skill players may not be Bob Gainey in their own end. If given coaching and encouragement they can learn they also need some patience as well. Shanny scored around 7 goals as a rookie but the Devils let him mature. Kreider has huge physical skills but he may never be more than a 30 goal scorer looking at his past. I'd rather work with him and build his confidence instead of trying to turn him in to a Brian Boyle.

    I do think this system dulls down skill players. A team with Nash, Richards, Gabs, Hags, MDZ, and McDonnah should not struggle on power plays or 5 on 3's for season after season. When I watched the Kings last playoff season I saw them take so many chances in their own end. It looked irresponsible to me after watching the Rangers but it was a lot more entertaining to watch and I think their players probably had more fun playing it.

    I'm not against Kreider going to the AHL. I'm just disappointed that so much emphasis is placed on grind grind grind, side board side board side board, and it leaves little room for individual creativity (never mind open ice).
    Kreider won't be going to AHL just yet, I think this is more of a step back for him from Torts to refocus and maybe watch the game and see from a different perspective of what the coach is expecting. Kreider's confidence won't gain anything if he's sitting on the bench game in and out and hearing the ranting of Torts.

    To your point about star players not blocking shots and whatever, we never see Gaborik or Nash blocking shots. I think everyone is oversensitive to our system where we think that every line has to be Brandon Prust type player. That's not the case. Our 3rd line was blocking shots and held up in their own end not because Torts told them to, it was because they didn't effectively get the puck out like the 1st and the 2nd line later on once Pyatt joined it. Kreider was a part of that, Boyle was a part of that, Halpern etc were all parts of that. The reason the 1st line gets more chances is because they are better at getting out of their own end, something Torts wants Kreider to "get". If his line spent less time in their own end and more in the opposite end of the ice there wouldn't be a problem. When you get out against Crosby, Malkin and Neal or Lucic, Bergeron, Marchand, you have to do the simple things to get the puck out of your end otherwise you are forced to sit back and block shots in the hopes they don't score. You have to admit our second line had a lot more offensive chances once Pyatt was put there instead of Kreider.

    I think everyone wants Kreider to be Rick Nash right now, he's not, he will probably never be, but he has more to offer than he's been showing, and I don't just mean the last three games, I mean all year with the Whale. He should have been their best player but as it was he was about their 4th best forward. I'm not willing to just hand Kreider the keys to the dressingroom just because he's "supposed" to be good, he should have to earn his spot like everyone else in the room, up to this point he hasn't earned anything, he might have to step it up to stay here. As I said before I think this is just a message to him that he needs to be better, and maybe if he watches the game like DelZotto and Hagelin both had to do from upstairs he might understand where his mistakes are coming from.

    BTW Sly, I hope we can come out with a win tonight. Need to get on a roll.

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34,972
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bsi View Post
    Kreider won't be going to AHL just yet, I think this is more of a step back for him from Torts to refocus and maybe watch the game and see from a different perspective of what the coach is expecting. Kreider's confidence won't gain anything if he's sitting on the bench game in and out and hearing the ranting of Torts.

    To your point about star players not blocking shots and whatever, we never see Gaborik or Nash blocking shots. I think everyone is oversensitive to our system where we think that every line has to be Brandon Prust type player. That's not the case. Our 3rd line was blocking shots and held up in their own end not because Torts told them to, it was because they didn't effectively get the puck out like the 1st and the 2nd line later on once Pyatt joined it. Kreider was a part of that, Boyle was a part of that, Halpern etc were all parts of that. The reason the 1st line gets more chances is because they are better at getting out of their own end, something Torts wants Kreider to "get". If his line spent less time in their own end and more in the opposite end of the ice there wouldn't be a problem. When you get out against Crosby, Malkin and Neal or Lucic, Bergeron, Marchand, you have to do the simple things to get the puck out of your end otherwise you are forced to sit back and block shots in the hopes they don't score. You have to admit our second line had a lot more offensive chances once Pyatt was put there instead of Kreider.

    I think everyone wants Kreider to be Rick Nash right now, he's not, he will probably never be, but he has more to offer than he's been showing, and I don't just mean the last three games, I mean all year with the Whale. He should have been their best player but as it was he was about their 4th best forward. I'm not willing to just hand Kreider the keys to the dressingroom just because he's "supposed" to be good, he should have to earn his spot like everyone else in the room, up to this point he hasn't earned anything, he might have to step it up to stay here. As I said before I think this is just a message to him that he needs to be better, and maybe if he watches the game like DelZotto and Hagelin both had to do from upstairs he might understand where his mistakes are coming from.

    BTW Sly, I hope we can come out with a win tonight. Need to get on a roll.
    I'm sure we can win with this style. I just do not find it very entertaining and I feel it keeps most games close. Cally doesnt play 3rd line. He has been injured multiple times blocking shots. One of the first things the coaches told Kreider when he came up last season was about blocking shots. Pyatt is a veteran so I'm not surprised that he would have an edge on Kreider so early in Kreider's career. I just have a different mindset from an entertainment point of view and the long term success of a kid. Kids can make mistakes and learn from them even if it causes a loss or 2. The thing is if we played a more offensive minded strategy we could also probably overcome some mistakes. I think we should be encouraging Hags and Kreider to be offensive players while teaching them the defensive side of the ice but the over emphasis on grind grind grind side board side board is not my cup of tea. Kreider and Hags are 2 of the 5 fastest guys in the NHL. Why don't we look to spring them for some home run passes? Torts is a very solid coach. I just do not like this 60 feet at a time play in a phone booth style. Also keep in mind its pretty crazy to work so hard to get the puck and then just dump it away again. There is a time and place for grinding and cycling as well as dump and chase. I'd just prefer a little less of it.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

Page 7 of 23 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •