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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    There aren't many good catchers. Posey, Wieters, Molina, Mauer...Who am I missing? If not top 5, then maybe #7
    and the year before that, while in Tampa.. he hit .224/.298/.354.. Not top 100.. The 2012 season could be the outlier.. but, time will tell..

    One thing is certain, though.. Michael Morse has hung .294/.349/.514 for the last three years combined. There should be no drop off from those numbers as Morse has been consistent. The Mariners and their fans screaming about John Jaso going away are RIDICULOUS...

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    There aren't many good catchers. Posey, Wieters, Molina, Mauer...Who am I missing? If not top 5, then maybe #7
    cervelli!
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

    1) Yankees 2) Orioles 3) Rays 4) Red Sox 5) Mets 6) Braves 7) Phillies 8) Nationals 9) Marlins 10) Pirates 11) Padres 12) Astros 13) Mariners 14) Twins 15) Cubs 16) White Sox 17) Cardinals 18) Indians 19) Tigers 20) Royals


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    and the year before that, while in Tampa.. he hit .224/.298/.354.. Not top 100.. The 2012 season could be the outlier.. but, time will tell..

    One thing is certain, though.. Michael Morse has hung .294/.349/.514 for the last three years combined. There should be no drop off from those numbers as Morse has been consistent. The Mariners and their fans screaming about John Jaso going away are RIDICULOUS...
    The freak outs are pretty entertaining though lol from some of the reaction over the internet you would think this was Felix getting traded.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeronimoSon View Post
    and the year before that, while in Tampa.. he hit .224/.298/.354.. Not top 100.. The 2012 season could be the outlier.. but, time will tell..

    One thing is certain, though.. Michael Morse has hung .294/.349/.514 for the last three years combined. There should be no drop off from those numbers as Morse has been consistent. The Mariners and their fans screaming about John Jaso going away are RIDICULOUS...
    Watch Jaso hit. It's beautiful. He's a better hitter than Morse, nevermind the age, years of control, price, and massive positional advantage. Awful, horrible trade for the Mariners, and the best player in the deal goes to a division rival. Just pure desperation on the part of the M's. Morse is a one dimensional, positionless player who walked 16 times last season, has on year left, and is injury prone. Jaso likely out-WARs him next season, then he's got 2 more seasons of control after that while Morse is a free agent. Just a bad move.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWBrodie View Post
    Watch Jaso hit. It's beautiful. He's a better hitter than Morse, nevermind the age, years of control, price, and massive positional advantage. Awful, horrible trade for the Mariners, and the best player in the deal goes to a division rival. Just pure desperation on the part of the M's. Morse is a one dimensional, positionless player who walked 16 times last season, has on year left, and is injury prone. Jaso likely out-WARs him next season, then he's got 2 more seasons of control after that while Morse is a free agent. Just a bad move.
    im a little more optimistic that morse can outwar jaso by having more talent with the bat, but pretty much this.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    There aren't many good catchers. Posey, Wieters, Molina, Mauer...Who am I missing? If not top 5, then maybe #7
    Jonathan Lucroy.

    3.9 WAR last year in under 100 G (had a broken hand so he was out 6 weeks)

    2012: .320 AVG, .368 OBP, .513 SLG, 12 HR, 58 RBI (96 G)
    2011: .265 AVG, .317 OBP, .391 SLG, 12 HR, 59 RBI (136 G)

  7. #67
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    Bill James has Jaso as this next year:

    .260 AVG, .364 OBP, .392 SLG, .334 wOBA, 6 HR, 36 RBI

    He has Mike Morse as this:

    .295 AVG, .342 OBP, .501 SLG, .360 wOBA, 23 HR, 80 RBI

    Morse is a great hitter but he is a very bad defender.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by nirvana235 View Post
    but hey they got Jason Bay, he's MONEY.
    Whats up with that sig?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    There aren't many good catchers. Posey, Wieters, Molina, Mauer...Who am I missing? If not top 5, then maybe #7
    Montero, Santana, Ellis, Pierz, Rosario, Ruiz, Lucroy, and my personal favorite....Perez


    there are a lot of good catchers.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoCrew5 View Post
    Bill James has Jaso as this next year:

    .260 AVG, .364 OBP, .392 SLG, .334 wOBA, 6 HR, 36 RBI

    He has Mike Morse as this:

    .295 AVG, .342 OBP, .501 SLG, .360 wOBA, 23 HR, 80 RBI

    Morse is a great hitter but he is a very bad defender.
    James predictions are generally awful. I wouldn't use them to show anything.

    Seems like a pretty poor move by the Mariners. There's a decent chance Jaso outhits Morse next season. And even if he doesn't Jaso has to be considered the better player. Morse is a good hitter but his D is so badit really cuts into his value. I wouldn't expect him to do well in Safeco as right handed power hitters really struggle there. It frees up Montero to catch, but nobody expects him to be there long term so it'll slow down the development of his bat since he'll waste time trying to be a better defensive C.

    Great move by the A's. I wonder if Seattle's GM gets fired this year. He's been making one bad move after the other.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 01-17-2013 at 04:53 PM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    James predictions are generally awful. I wouldn't use them to show anything.

    Seems like a pretty poor move by the Mariners. There's a decent chance Jaso outhits Morse next season. And even if he doesn't Jaso has to be considered the better player. Morse isn't that great a hitter to make up for his lack of D, and I wouldn't expect him to do well in Safeco as right handed power hitters really struggle there. It frees up Montero to catch, but nobody expects him to be there long term so it'll slow down the development of his bat since he'll waste time trying to be a better defensive C.

    Great move by the A's. I wonder if Seattle's GM gets fired this year. He's been making one bad move after the other.
    You'd have to think so.

    When Jack Z first came on the horizon he was praised in the sabr community before getting employed....and he hasn't come close to making any moves that fit that criteria. You have to think if the M's don't do well this year he'll be out.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    You'd have to think so.

    When Jack Z first came on the horizon he was praised in the sabr community before getting employed....and he hasn't come close to making any moves that fit that criteria. You have to think if the M's don't do well this year he'll be out.
    What would he get fired for?

    He traded a platoon Catcher who had a career year lets see how the two play out before saying Z is going to get fired way over reaction imo.

    The reason Z was brought in was to build up the farm system which he has done if they want a quick fix then why not give him some money to throw at Hamilton instead of being cheap.
    Last edited by NateyB24; 01-17-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    What would he get fired for?

    He traded a platoon Catcher who had a career year lets see how the two play out before saying Z is going to get fired way over reaction imo.

    The reason Z was brought in was to build up the farm system which he has done if they want a quick fix then why not give him some money to throw at Hamilton instead of being cheap.
    I didn't say he would get fired because of the Jaso move, but, let's look at his recent moves:

    Signed Jason Bay (even non-guaranteed...why?)
    Signed Raul Ibanez (why?)
    Traded Vargas for Morales (which would be fine if they didn't have so many 1B/DH options like Ibanez/Jaso/Montero/Smoak/Bay, and now Morse).
    Traded Jaso for Morse

    Of course, those are just some of the offseason moves. Who can forget gems like:

    Doug Fister for a pair of relievers and Casper Wells. Especially when you consider how dominant Fister has been for the Tigers (232 IP, 2.95 ERA, 7.5 K/9, 1.6 BB/9) over 37 starts. That's legitimate top of the rotation production and they basically have a pair of relievers and a platoon OF to show for it.

    And because of all these DH/1B cluttering moves, it's quite likely Casper Wells gets shipped out for pennies on the dollar.

    Eric Thames (who will probably be traded now that there's no room) for Steve Delabar.

    Really the only good moves you can say he's made over the past 2 years is what, signing Oliver Perez and Iwakuma?

    I understand the M's got owned with the defensive players and are going for offensively minded players here, but they just totally misjudged the value of Jaso. He would have been better for the team even if the stud catching spec is up by next year if Morse is the best they could have got back in a trade.

    I just don't see what GM Z has done to deserve to keep his job over the past few years. You can credit him for drafting or developing guys if you want, but he's drafting pretty much top 5 year in and out. And the high ceiling guys they've promoted in recent years (Montero, Smoak, Ackley) have been far less impressive than we've been led to believe. Which is either a failure to identify the right guys, or a failure to develop them properly.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

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  14. #74
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    Chooooooooooooch

    Edit: ^To the "who am I missing comment up thurr"

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24 View Post
    What would he get fired for?

    He traded a platoon Catcher who had a career year lets see how the two play out before saying Z is going to get fired way over reaction imo.

    The reason Z was brought in was to build up the farm system which he has done if they want a quick fix then why not give him some money to throw at Hamilton instead of being cheap.
    Other than some nice farm system pieces, the team overall is quite bad, and it's mainly because of consistently bad moves by him.

    I have liked some of his moves, and they just didn't turn out. But overall, the team has so many assets that should have been expanded and done better, and it's consistently not happened.

    I bet the M's don't win 75 games again this year. If the core of Ackley, Montero, Smoak can really improve this year, then it might save his job.

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