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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerellh528 View Post
    dang, what kobe has been able to do after all his career minutes, games, and postseason games is so astonishing to me. There has never been another player in nba history to play at this high of a level after so many minutes. To even be compared to guys like lebron and durant who are around a decade younger than kobe at this point in his career is a testament to the will and dedication of kobe's play. I would like to see who else can sustain this top 5 player type of production after playing the same amount of minutes as kobe. No one ever has and maybe nobody ever will. Mad props.
    mj?


    #wankfortiggins

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24 View Post
    Everyone around the organization has been critical of his defense. I've only watched him 5 or so times (entire games, that is), and wasn't impressed. Many fans in your own forum (obviously most aren't as intelligent as you) have been lambasting his defense all year.

    I'll take your word for it though, because you should and do know better than me. It just contradicts a lot of what I've heard. I don't have the Synergy stats at my fingertips right now, but sifting through them maybe two weeks ago and he was having a down year, and drastically so.

    There were talks the other day, from respectable columnists, about whether or not that back court defensive tandem was the worst in the NBA.

    However, recently (see: Kyrie, see: Paul, see: Jennings) his defense has seemingly improved, perhaps a lot because D'Antoni has shifted him to smaller guards rather than bigger guards (ie, PGs instead of SGs).


    Perhaps I was being too harsh, but up until recently no one was praising his defense...be it people around the Lakers, Lakers fans, or pundits/fans looking from afar.
    I get your argument but its flawed for a couple reasons.

    The first is Kobe has been the starting SF on the team for a number of games this year, and even when he hasn't started there in crunch time before Nash returned he was finishing at the 3 with Meeks and Morris as MWP was shifted to the 4 because of Pau being injured/benched.

    It isn't as simple as saying he struggles vs SGs. Case and point when we have played Denver this year, he blanketed Gallo most the game in LA. He was the secondary defender on Melo both games as well when Metta sat

    His problems have been

    1) since Nash returned he was being shifted on PGs late in games after they got hot. Literally he got shifted on Lawson in Denver and LA because he was running past Nash, but he got shifted on him the last 5 minutes as a fire blanket while also averaging 43mpg in the same stretch. Versus Phili they put him on Holiday late, and Holiday didnt get anything, so they shifted everything to attack Pau instead. Dantoni has seemed to realize at least, Kobe can't play 43mpg and be Nash's personal fire blanket after Steve lets a guy go off for 3 1/2 quarters. He also took Curry in the 4th and it vs GSW in that comeback and Kemba in that other comeback but those were cases of him being able to put out fires and help the team win with big minutes, which are outliers, as LeBron and KD themselves aren't told play 43mpg and shut down a guy late while scoring as well, let alone at his miles.

    2) like Bruno said he went super safety and it was horrid. Outright bad, when Dwight and Pau and Hill were all out. He took the roaming concept Phil used to use for him vs a Brewer or Rondo and it bit him in the *** vs SA and Houston because Green and Delfino can hit shots. I'm nt arguing that it was bad D, but he had no eligible C on his team besides Sacre or PF besides Twan and Nash was still getting it.

    While Nash was out, Kobe wasn't bad on D. In fact he, Metta, and Morris were good, especially under Bernie who had Kobe and Metta both doing what he is doing now which is simply hawking the ball, which is what Coach K let him do, and what Phil let him do during the 3 peat because he admittedly has always "got up" to play that full court, one on one, I don't have to help D
    Last edited by kblo247; 01-16-2013 at 11:37 PM.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaDubs View Post
    mj?
    nope try again. Not even the great MJ, he retired at around 9000 less minutes played(includes postseason) than kobe has already and we all rememeber Mj was no top 5 player on the wiz lol.
    Last edited by jerellh528; 01-16-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    exactly. Kobe making 1st team all defense yearly, when many of those years there were simply better perimeter defenders not making it due to him, is why so many call Kobe an overrated defender as a whole.
    And I agree that Tony Allen and Thabo go overlooked, but again context implies they only play one side of the ball and for limited minutes. They wouldn't be half as effective if they were 40 minute players, let alone 40 minute players asked to score and facilitate primarily on their teams. That's what has always hurt the, in the eyes of the coaches, who do the votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I got to say this is some bad context. One of these games Kobe literally tore his shoulder out of socket while playing them as a guy landed on top of him on TNT in 03-04. That counts against them. Another he had to miss the rest the game in 04-05 on TNT because of a high ankle sprain where he twisted it mid game off a rebound, which he would miss weeks behind, and then he returned only to play them. Another game is literally the flu game where he spent quarter breaks and half time throwing up, which is where LO dominated the glass in I want to say 08-09. He hasn't even finished two of the games in that sample because he has been injured in them, not hurt, but injured so that's like citing his 01 finals stats vs Indy with Game 2 factored in

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaDubs View Post
    mj?
    Karl Malone and Kareem are better comparison than MJ for Kobe in terms of mileage and longevity with elite level play.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerellh528 View Post
    I wouldn't lump hawk with those guys(blind kobe haters), he tries to be unbiased and is usually a pretty truthful poster, but you gotta throw hidlago in there lol. But yes, there has never been a player who's played so many games and minutes still performing at a top 5 level, its pretty amazing if you think about it.
    i respect the hell out of kobe. im an objective fan who doesn't let bias alter my opinion of a player. this is why lakers homers hate me. i judge by how i see it and what the stats say. just because i dont worship him doesnt mean i dont think he is great. he is a top 20 player of all time, an all time great.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kblo247 View Post
    And I agree that Tony Allen and Thabo go overlooked, but again context implies they only play one side of the ball and for limited minutes. They wouldn't be half as effective if they were 40 minute players, let alone 40 minute players asked to score and facilitate primarily on their teams. That's what has always hurt the, in the eyes of the coaches, who do the votes
    For sure dude, but that is my point. There are guys who are designated defenders, not asked to do a lot more. And they are better defenders than Kobe because of it. But I understand how it works.

    I got to say this is some bad context. One of these games Kobe literally tore his shoulder out of socket while playing them as a guy landed on top of him on TNT in 03-04. That counts against them. Another he had to miss the rest the game in 04-05 on TNT because of a high ankle sprain where he twisted it mid game off a rebound, which he would miss weeks behind, and then he returned only to play them. Another game is literally the flu game where he spent quarter breaks and half time throwing up, which is where LO dominated the glass in I want to say 08-09. He hasn't even finished two of the games in that sample because he has been injured in them, not hurt, but injured so that's like citing his 01 finals stats vs Indy with Game 2 factored in
    I was responding to the ultimate Laker homer who thinks Kobe invented the earth, sun, moon, and water. By no means did I even need to bring context in on that one dude.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    For sure dude, but that is my point. There are guys who are designated defenders, not asked to do a lot more. And they are better defenders than Kobe because of it. But I understand how it works.



    I was responding to the ultimate Laker homer who thinks Kobe invented the earth, sun, moon, and water. By no means did I even need to bring context in on that one dude.
    Actually, Scoring a lot can be a good thing for your defense.. Players that cover Tony Allen and Thabo waste a lot less energy playing defense which allows them to preserve energy for the offensive end. Can't say they can do the same covering Kobe, which means they have to waste energy chasing kobe, which can affect their offensive game as they don't have as much energy.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaDubs View Post
    mj?
    lol. No

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sactown View Post
    Actually, Scoring a lot can be a good thing for your defense.. Players that cover Tony Allen and Thabo waste a lot less energy playing defense which allows them to preserve energy for the offensive end. Can't say they can do the same covering Kobe, which means they have to waste energy chasing kobe, which can affect their offensive game as they don't have as much energy.
    I get that. What I am saying is, at any given point in Kobe's defensive all teams, there were better defenders. That was their sole job. They were asked to do nothing else. But stars get recognized for playing both ends, over specialists.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by NFLNBA View Post
    Wade is easy, he will prob be benched anyway but Wade has fallen as fast as Gasol. Lebron is unguardable. Just need to not let anyone else beat you against the Heat and thats what teams are doing now and its working.
    Right, you have to guard James, the refs, travelling, and double dribbles. Unfair when its 1 vs 4.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Im_in_Mia_bish View Post
    i think he did during the cleveland days, hence why the cavaliers always won.
    Right, a SF/PF guarding a SG. Good job, James.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaDubs View Post
    Sorry bro its hard to sense sarcasm over the internet for me lol.
    It's cool. I just don't understand why people always ask me how I can be a fan of the SF giants and the LA Lakers. I know I live in So Cal but I should be able to root for any team I want, and hey, the giants are still in Cali so wtf. Maybe I should just give them the answer they want and say I began Liking both teams as soon as they won championships. **** it, that'll be easier

  14. #134
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    I knew it...

  15. #135
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    For the record, in head to head play when both are on the floor LeBron averages:
    27.1/7.4/7.8
    ts%: .515

    Kobe averages:
    25.3/4.9/4.9
    ts%: .517

    So... yeah. I mean I don't think it means anything, I'm just saying in case anyone actually is interested.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

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