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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart1 View Post
    This is the question.

    So who do you guys really think qualify as Raider busts?

    Here's my list of biggest Raider busts:

    1. JaMarcus Russell
    2. Todd Marinovich
    3. Robert Gallery
    4. Darrell Russell
    5. Derrick Gibson
    6. Bob Buckowski
    7. Patrick Bates
    8. Rickey Dudley
    9. John Clay
    10. Michael Huff

    Any others?
    To think we got SD to send us Jim Lachey for Clay only to give him up for Jay Schroeder.

    That one still hurts.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart1 View Post
    If McFadden goes on that list......shouldn't Bo Jackson, too? Their numbers are almost identical up to this point. And injuries have hurt both of their careers.
    I could hear Andrew Dice Clay now...........................OOOOHHHHH!!!!!!

    Great point.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogdaddy View Post
    Almost all those players played for someone like the patriots, there careers most likely would have been positive. What people forget is that you get high draft picks cause your team sucks. It takes a rock solid staff and team structure to be successful. Something we haven't had since Gruden. By the way , Jafatbutt wouldn't make for any team.

    Look an NFL team is the easiest of all pro sports to turn around. You have to remember that all these players were college studs and didnt forget how to play football over night. Why do you think most Raider players that go to other teams resurect their career? They just didn't remember how to play football.
    Most Raider players go on to revive their careers?

    Thats not true.

    Most guys are not even picked up by other teams we drafted so bad.

    Unless you consider Doug Gabriels stint in NE a success.

    Name these players as I can name a lot more in the likes of Stuart Schweigert and Johnny Morant.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbacknick View Post
    How about Terry Mc Daniel, Anthony Dorsett, Stanford Routt, and Jerry Porter?
    T-Mac?

    What?

    Are you serious?

    We didn't draft Dorsett either as he was a FA signing from the Titans.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart1 View Post
    I didn't really say Bo was a bust. I said if DMC is a bust then Bo would be, too. Why? Because they both proved they could play at a high level in the NFL and they suffered the setbacks caused by injury.

    So, I was implying that DMC really wouldn't fit into the bust category.

    I totally agree with Buchanon and Washington. Harris was a second rounder. Do they count as busts? Hmmmmm.......i don't think they should
    Bo was taken in the supplemental draft and not the 7th round.

    He was thrown back in to the mix, after announcing he would play baseball, after being taken number one overall by T Bay in 85.

    I believe he cost us more than a supplemental pick too.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart1 View Post
    Big difference between a guy taken in the 7th round to be a part time player and a guy taken with the 4th overall pick to be the spearpoint of the offense.

    Also, McFadden is injury prone, getting hurt multiple times in multiple places. Jackson's career was ended by a single freak incident.

    No comparison whatsoever.

    BTW...Darrell Russell, while disappointing, was All-Pro. Twice.

    -Stork





    Yes, but he was undeniably a first round talent (Bo).

    Injuries are injuries. They have caused many great players to become good or even average.

    Russell I would take off the list now that the definition of "bust" should include that the player was able demonstrate that they could play at a high level for at least a year.
    Bo was taken in the supplemental draft and already had been taken as the 1st pick in the 1985 NFL draft.

    Notice how the goal posts moved again"

    Now, the question of productivity gives way to the draft spot as the indicator of what a bust is.

    Suddenly, the numbers are tied to draft slot and matter less.

  7. #82
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    Part of the whole point of this thread was to determine exactly what is a bust. People are saying this guys a bust and that guys a bust. I mean, if you lose in the Super Bowl is your whole team a bust?

    So, to me, based on most of the "bust lists" I've seen, a bust is usually a first round pick who never really demonstrated that they could play at a high level in the NFL. Of course, it's relative to some people's opinions about what a "high level" would be. And.................there's more to this definition than what I've briefly stated.

    Like, I think Gallery was a bust even though we later moved him to guard and played decently there. But we drafted him as a left tackle, paid him as a left tackle, started him as a left tackle, and then suffered miserably at that position cuz he could not hack it. He never demonstrated that he could play that position in the NFL at all.....much less at a "high level."

    Plus, OL don't register stats as much as other players do......so that's a little challenging in that domain.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Swami View Post
    Bo was taken in the supplemental draft and already had been taken as the 1st pick in the 1985 NFL draft.

    Notice how the goal posts moved again"

    Now, the question of productivity gives way to the draft spot as the indicator of what a bust is.

    Suddenly, the numbers are tied to draft slot and matter less.
    No, we took Jackson in the 7th round of the draft in 1987. The 183rd pick. Gonna have to step up your game Swam/Joesy/Snake/Stalin.

    And Tampa Bay took Jackson with the first pick of the 1986 draft.

    -Stork
    Last edited by themadstork; 01-20-2013 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #84
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    I would not include Gallery and Huff in that list because they were starters until they were 30 years old. Even Darrell Russell was a Pro Bowler and would have been a great player if he hadn't gotten into trouble with the league. The biggest bust in NFL history IMO is Jamarcus Russell. He earns that distinction because he held out for more money and he flopped as an NFL QB. Yes even worse than Ryan Leaf. McClain should be on this list.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by erickench View Post
    I would not include Gallery and Huff in that list because they were starters until they were 30 years old. Even Darrell Russell was a Pro Bowler and would have been a great player if he hadn't gotten into trouble with the league. The biggest bust in NFL history IMO is Jamarcus Russell. He earns that distinction because he held out for more money and he flopped as an NFL QB. Yes even worse than Ryan Leaf. McClain should be on this list.
    Again, I think my theory is being supported here that if a player proves he can play at a high level in the league, he should not be considered a bust. I stated earlier in this thread I would take Russell off the list because of this fact (I meant D. Russell not J. Russell).

    I don't think Huff has really proven that he can play at a "high level". That's just my opiniom and I'll get slammed for this one for sure. But our secondary as been one of the weakest in the league since Huff has been on the team. He can't tackle worth a ****. Kind of an important skill for a safety.

    Gallery busted at tackle......the position we drafted him to play, but became a "decent" guard. I wouldn't consider his play "high level".

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheart1 View Post
    I don't think Huff has really proven that he can play at a "high level". That's just my opiniom and I'll get slammed for this one for sure. But our secondary as been one of the weakest in the league since Huff has been on the team. He can't tackle worth a ****. Kind of an important skill for a safety.
    That's why they should leave Huff at CB. I think he's better playing CB. They don't have to be good tacklers.

  12. #87
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    ^I have to respectfully disagree with you on that

  13. #88
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    Huff was serviceable at corner but he needs to go back to safety. He hung tough last season, I was proud of him.

  14. #89
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    I would deff. add Mcclain to that list - might as well throw DHB on it too, he is terrible and still cant catch.

  15. #90
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    Yeah, after discussing this with you guys at length.....here's the updated list:

    1. JaMarcus Russell
    2. Todd Marinovich
    3. Robert Gallery
    4. Rolando McClain
    5. Derrick Gibson
    6. Bob Buckowski
    7. Patrick Bates
    8. Rickey Dudley
    9. John Clay
    10. Michael Huff

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