What ever happened to Albert Pujols as one of the MLB's best?

[iam brett favre]

If you want to get into the speculation game, it's possible every baseball player in MLB has used PEDS at some point.

As for taking you seriously i never do whether you are making a relevant point or not.

So why respond?

[metswon69]

So why respond?

Because you wouldnt the first poster to insinuate wrongly that Pujols is PED user and based on our conversations in the past i really wouldn't put it past you to take that position on Albert.

And if you were being facetious why perpetuate the point of "It's very unlikely" he went through a natural decline in response to SFrush unless you were trolling or actually felt that way?

[iam brett favre]

Because you wouldnt the first poster to insinuate wrongly that Pujols is PED user and based on our conversations in the past i really wouldn't put it past you to take that position on Albert.

And if you were being facetious why perpetuate the point of "It's very unlikely" he went through a natural decline in response to SFRush unless you were trolling or actually felt that way?

I think I've dignified your posts with responses enough for one night. I thought we were passed the pink font for sarcasm stage here...but I guess we aren't.

[metswon69]

I think I've dignified your posts with responses enough for one night. I thought we were passed the pink font for sarcasm stage here...but I guess we aren't.

Maybe you shouldn't start with "I pity someone as naive as you" and continually responding to a point you are all of a sudden are being "sarcastic" about and maybe next time you won't be accused of trolling/not knowing what you are talking about.

Just an idea..

[AussieDoc]

I think Derek Jeter is a better player than Albert Pujols anyway.

[SFrush90]

Not sure if you're serious (I think you're not?).

[metswon69]

Not sure if you're serious (I think you're not?).

[metswon69]

I think Derek Jeter is a better player than Albert Pujols anyway.

Jeter (17 seasons):
.365 wOBA
122 wRC+
77.6 WAR

Pujols (12 seasons):
.425 wOBA
164 wRC+
91.6 WAR

Even if you took positional value into respect it's still really not that close and Pujols has accomplished that type of value in 5 less seasons in the big leagues.

Not to mention Jeter is a below average SS defensively and that's being generous..

[SFrush90]

Hear, hear!

[dodgernation]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd take a healthy Ken Griffey Jr over Albert Pujols if we aren't talking just hitting.

[shano0603]

Nope.

Thomas (19 seasons):
.416 wOBA
154 wRC
76.2 WAR

Pujols (12 seasons):
.425 wOBA
164 wRC+
91.6 WAR

I think WAR is a bit overrated of statistic. Some of the time it properly correlates a player's value to the team. I mean last year Jeff Franceours WAR was -2.7, mearly because Wil Myers was in their farm system.That more or less depends on who is underneath you on the team. If Pujol's back up a AAA who hit's .234 with 12 homers, it might inflate his WAR a bit.

[metswon69]

I think WAR is a bit overrated of statistic. Some of the time it properly correlates a player's value to the team. I mean last year Jeff Franceours WAR was -2.7, mearly because Wil Myers was in their farm system.That more or less depends on who is underneath you on the team. If Pujol's back up a AAA who hit's .234 with 12 homers, it might inflate his WAR a bit.

Francouer's WAR value has nothing to do with Wil Myers, it has to do with his individual performance and how that is valued. OTOH it has everything to do with his negative baserunning, negative UZR, and how inept he was at the plate.

WAR doesn't use actual replacement players or backup players as an example of comparison but theoretical ones.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/ab...xplained.shtml

How to Use WAR

The idea behind the WAR framework is that we want to know how much better a player is than what a team would typically have to replace that player. We start by comparing the player to average in a variety of venues and then compare our theoretical replacement player to the average player and add the two results together.

[SFrush90]

I think WAR is a bit overrated of statistic. Some of the time it properly correlates a player's value to the team. I mean last year Jeff Franceours WAR was -2.7, mearly because Wil Myers was in their farm system.That more or less depends on who is underneath you on the team. If Pujol's back up a AAA who hit's .234 with 12 homers, it might inflate his WAR a bit.

Pretty much what metswon said.

[metswon69]

I think WAR is a bit overrated of statistic. Some of the time it properly correlates a player's value to the team. I mean last year Jeff Franceours WAR was -2.7, mearly because Wil Myers was in their farm system.That more or less depends on who is underneath you on the team. If Pujol's back up a AAA who hit's .234 with 12 homers, it might inflate his WAR a bit.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/ind...acement-level/

How Good Is a Replacement Level Player?

We know what we want our baseline to be, at least in philosophical terms. But we don’t know how it relates to league average yet. How do we get from the idea of a replacement level player to the idea of what to expect from the average replacement level player? The easiest way is by going back and looking at how well players who’ve been acquired for ‘free’ have done, relative to the league. When you do this (for batters – pitchers are an entirely different story) you end up finding that replacement level players are around twenty runs worse than league average per 600 plate appearances (or 0.03 runs below average per plate appearance, if you like rate stats). We now have our baseline set, but there are still some questions left to address.

[Spartan8585]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd take a healthy Ken Griffey Jr over Albert Pujols if we aren't talking just hitting.

Same here. I'd also tak Zunino over Albert.