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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakersA's49ers View Post
    Rudy Gay is the way overpaid version of Andre Iguodala
    Who is way, way worse defensively?

    Rudy Gay's not a great player. He's a willing big shot taker, which does absolutely have its moments, but overall you could find a much better fit for their team that would ultimately give you more salary space to be creative. I respect Hollins backing up his players, but I don't fully respect how high he is on Rudy. They'd be a flat out better team with Iggy.
    Last edited by tredigs; 01-15-2013 at 07:52 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakersA's49ers View Post
    Rudy Gay is the way overpaid version of Andre Iguodala
    Meh. Iggy is an all-world defender and a much better passer (though he's having a down year). Iggy, when on, is a far more well-rounded and just a flat out better player.

    Gay can rebound well for his position, but that's about it. He's a decent scorer...but you don't need advanced stats to see how inefficient he's been.

    18 points a game on 17 shots?!?! More than half the league could probably do that.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Its not about subtracting his PPG on X% and replacing it with PPG on Y%.
    Sure it is. Replacing his impact in the game is what you try and do, for cheaper, or more flexibility. But replacing 18 ppg on 17 shots a game is much easier than you think.

    Its about the dynamic he provides to the team that they need going against guys like Durant/LeBron. These are things stats won't tell you but obviously the coach recognizes it.
    Well, they can tell us a lot, but I understand what you are trying to say, and that is when LeBron comes to town, he focuses on stopping Gay, limiting his impact elsewhere on defense for a night. But in reality, wouldn't the Grizz be better off getting more looks for their interior players, and getting a young talent and spot up shooter to replace the expensive Gay? He is not worth going into severe luxury tax penalties for, and is a replaceable player on a contending team.

    I understand the salary argument though, Hollins is thinking like a coach, owner is thinking like a guy who pays the bills. Hollins himself admitted he's rarely ever spoken a word to the new owner so I wouldn't be surprised if he's not privvy to the upper management gameplan with the team they just bought. Hollins might not even be part of that gameplan.
    And I think that is the directive driving this trade situation. You bring in an analytics guy, tell him, "we need to reduce salary, period", and ask him what he thinks. Of course Gay is the one coming up.

    I think its a shame, this team could get hot a make a run at the finals. They beat SA a couple years back and took OKC to 7 without Gay.
    Like I said, I honestly don't believe they even make a trade this season involving Gay, they are probably just putting out feelers, to see if they can get a great deal back for him that will allow them to remain as competitive as they are currently, and lets them shed salary this summer. If they don't find one, they simply wait until the offseason, and address it then.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #34
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    Can any other player on the Grizzlies create their own shot on the Perimeter? If the Griz trade Gay it's imperative they get back someone like Gay who can do that, otherwise a big dimension of offense disappears...
    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
    My fanbase is growing.

  5. #35
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    Then what is it about? Its about performing. A guy that doesn't get on a stat sheet doesn't help his team much. Am I Wrong? Rudy Gay is a good player, but damn all sports, stats are important.
    Yes it is, but stats doesn't tell the whole story. His versatility alone makes a huge difference. Teams have to prepare for Gay because his presence alone cannot be ignored. He's an athletic wing who can create and shoot. This opens up opportunities for his teammates. Him being able to guard huge SF's like Durant and LeBron is huge. Obviously no one will stop those two, but to slow them down and keep the game close is important. Chemistry is another thing. This Grizz team has great chemistry and balance each other a lot, and goes to show all guys in the locker room are all-in. You take one key player out, suddenly the mood in the locker room changes. Hollins knows how much of an impact Gay provides on and off the court, Hollinger does not.

    A steal, a block, an assist and a rebound will appear in a stat sheet. Challenging shots, proper defensive rotations, setting screens, helping out on defense, boxing out, going with the flow of the offense do not appear on stat sheets.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    But Deng's value is more than just throwing up 15 shots a night. He is a capable shut down defender. Look, nobody is saying Gay isn't important to his teams play. What this situation is about, is the Grizz are not the Lakers or Knicks. They can't afford to just pay huge luxury taxes, the ones that will be coming for "repeat offenders" in the new CBA. They need to cut bait. Gay is the low hanging fruit.
    Well them cutting the bait will dramatically change the dynamics of the Grizz team. If they want to stay relevant they should keep Rudy Gay. He fits in nicely in a front-line that lacks athleticism without him. You remove him and add a slower Paul Pierce, then there goes your defensive versatility.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Can any other player on the Grizzlies create their own shot on the Perimeter? If the Griz trade Gay it's imperative they get back someone like Gay who can do that, otherwise a big dimension of offense disappears...
    Trading Gay wouldn't be a huge deal if they didn't let OJ walk.

    I will say, if cutting cap is a necessary evil with no way around it, Gay is the guy I trade. The bread and butter of that team is the Zbo-Gasol connection in the paint. They already proved they can go deep in the playoffs without Gay.

    Would be silly to not trade him for Beal/Ariza because I think you could not miss a beat now and be way better in the future. Ariza gives them the defensive versatility you lose with Gay.
    The value of elite scoring ability, by Phil Jackson:

    "This is a guy, we recognize his talent, and his skill is the kind of skill and talent that gets you through playoff games where things get sticky, grind-out, and basketball becomes a force game and suddenly you need to have a player who has the capabilities of scoring with someone hanging on them in a situation that’s critical. He’s one of those players, one of the few players who can do that.”

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Can any other player on the Grizzlies create their own shot on the Perimeter? If the Griz trade Gay it's imperative they get back someone like Gay who can do that, otherwise a big dimension of offense disappears...
    or you just make adjustments to your offensive game plan. Hollins is paid a lot of money to coach basketball.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsFTW View Post
    Well them cutting the bait will dramatically change the dynamics of the Grizz team. If they want to stay relevant they should keep Rudy Gay. He fits in nicely in a front-line that lacks athleticism without him. You remove him and add a slower Paul Pierce, then there goes your defensive versatility.
    why would your defensive versatility go anywhere if Gay leaves? He is an average defender. You simply make adjustments with who you bring in. Whether that be more inside/outside, or spotting your SF in the corner versus trying to run offense through him, etc.

    Gay has a PER of 15, TS% of 48%. He is an average defender, average rebounder for his position, and is having his worst season in 4 years, individually. He makes a ton of money. The whole point here is, the Grizz know they need to shed salary. He is the obvious choice.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #40
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    Bottom line: they need to cut salary pretty badly. Among their 4 highest paid players (ZBo, Marc, Conley and Gay) he is both the worst player of the 4 and has the worst contract. He's the obvious guy to move.

    Especially because it looks like he actually, for whatever reason, has some value.

    They're in a terrible spot financially.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    why would your defensive versatility go anywhere if Gay leaves? He is an average defender. You simply make adjustments with who you bring in. Whether that be more inside/outside, or spotting your SF in the corner versus trying to run offense through him, etc.

    Gay has a PER of 15, TS% of 48%. He is an average defender, average rebounder for his position, and is having his worst season in 4 years, individually. He makes a ton of money. The whole point here is, the Grizz know they need to shed salary. He is the obvious choice.
    He provides length that causes players to adjust their shots.

    Gay having the ability to get into the basket changes the opposing team's defensive schemes.

    If the Grizzlies believe saving money is more important (because Gay makes a couple more millions than other elite SF's) than winning then that's their choice

  12. #42
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    People got to realize its hard to match supreme athleticsm+supreme skill all wrapped in 1 coming straight into NBA
    Bet nobody on here can name me a handful in history who has, and im talking SF/SG/PG types

    ALCINDOR/HAKEEM had the skill but i wouldnt put them in the supremeathletic field of a SHAQ/WILT,just like i wouldnt put them in the skill category of the former....DROB is closest far as equally both, but SHAQ/WILT were so physically gifted, that was almost all they needed, but they both were willing(good) passers so thats a skill right psd?

    This is a pure salary dump move by a 'small' market type squad and this has CUBAN/MAVS written all over it,especially since i heard he was willing to take back salary and hes 100pct making a move...according to CUBAN himself


    If not MAVS then i can see BOS/PHI trying to get involved
    GAY is who he was from day1(supreme athlete who improved his floor game since inception), him having 5 rings wouldnt change a damn thang about that either, neither would his PER

    Even if he was avg 24ppg on 16shots per game HOLLINGER would still have to make a salary dump move because they cant handle the luxury tax, poor small market teams....1yr competing, the next yr moving core pieces because scared money never win no titles

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsFTW View Post
    He provides length that causes players to adjust their shots.

    Gay having the ability to get into the basket changes the opposing team's defensive schemes.

    If the Grizzlies believe saving money is more important (because Gay makes a couple more millions than other elite SF's) than winning then that's their choice
    So since he is tall for his position, you pay him that money?

    Gay doesn't even attack the rim in the half court setting much, which is what Memphis runs.

    You are missing the point. Its not at the expense of winning. They are obviously just gauging offers, not looking to shell him off for salary relief.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsFTW View Post
    He provides length that causes players to adjust their shots.

    Gay having the ability to get into the basket changes the opposing team's defensive schemes.

    If the Grizzlies believe saving money is more important (because Gay makes a couple more millions than other elite SF's) than winning then that's their choice
    Plenty of SFs have his length. Plenty of SFs are actually above average defenders too.

    He doesn't even attack the rim much

    Thing is, he's the 20th highest paid player in the NBA, the 3rd/4th highest paid SF..and is arguably the 4th best player on that team.

    There will be a drop off if they trade him, but it probably won't be much, and the salary saved makes it so worth it.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRamForPrez24 View Post
    Bottom line: they need to cut salary pretty badly. Among their 4 highest paid players (ZBo, Marc, Conley and Gay) he is both the worst player of the 4 and has the worst contract. He's the obvious guy to move.

    Especially because it looks like he actually, for whatever reason, has some value.

    They're in a terrible spot financially.
    Really, it's this simple.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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