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  1. #46
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    Like I said, this book is taking it all out of context..

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes
    Epstein: "I take full responsibility for [Gonzalez, Crawford deals]. . It was my job to handle the pressure of a big market ...
    That doesn't sound quite like taking full responsibility --- yet not providing any detail regarding the 'pressure' he hints at.

    This story is old, boring and needs to die. So tired of this ********... just don't care anymore.

    LL's an a.hole, Tito's an idiot, Warner is lost/clueless... the list goes on and on. Not even discussion worthy, as the true facts will never come out, and even if they do, it's years too late.
    DodgersGM ‏@DodgersGM
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  3. #48
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    I don't know why Theo would apologise about Gonzalez. His extension was just right (even a little underpaid) and not a single prospect he dealt for him has yet to pan out. It was the Crawford deal that really handcuffed this team.

    Heck, I could still live with Beckett and Gonzalez in Red Sox jerseys today. That $20 million to C.C. could have went a loooong way in filling 3 or 4 other holes though.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Sox Fan View Post
    I don't know why Theo would apologise about Gonzalez. His extension was just right (even a little underpaid) and not a single prospect he dealt for him has yet to pan out. It was the Crawford deal that really handcuffed this team.

    Heck, I could still live with Beckett and Gonzalez in Red Sox jerseys today. That $20 million to C.C. could have went a loooong way in filling 3 or 4 other holes though.
    Rizzo is a stud.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI. View Post
    Rizzo is a stud.
    It's hard to say 100% for sure, but he has the look so far.

    Imagine if they had signed Holliday and Beltre, and kept Youk at 1B. Rizzo now at 1B, WMB at DH. Ouch... Thanks to LAD for not only taking those contracts, but giving us 2 of our top 3 P specs.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    It's hard to say 100% for sure, but he has the look so far.

    Imagine if they had signed Holliday and Beltre, and kept Youk at 1B. Rizzo now at 1B, WMB at DH. Ouch... Thanks to LAD for not only taking those contracts, but giving us 2 of our top 3 P specs.
    Don't get me wrong here because I ado agree, but for me it's a lot harder to get excited about a pitching prospect than it is to get excited over a hitting spec. Pitching specs, even the best ones, flame out more often than not.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Sox Fan View Post
    I don't know why Theo would apologise about Gonzalez. His extension was just right (even a little underpaid) and not a single prospect he dealt for him has yet to pan out. It was the Crawford deal that really handcuffed this team.
    Rizzo's 119OPS+ in more than half a season in 2012 is a good start for a 22yr old.

    Casey Kelley had a few good outings mixed into his six call-up starts. Overall the results were on the ugly side but there's some hope for the future. I soured on him well before he was dealt but he could be successful in SDP, especially since he's only 22.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    FYI they were SCOUTING CC for OVER 4 months both on and off the field before they signed him. So there was a tone of interest in him from the sox before the season even ended. and this was not just a "oh **** lets just do something big that we never looked into"
    Since the meetings in question came during 2010, doesn't it make sense that they'd start looking at players during that season? Looks like pretty simple cause and effect.

  9. #54
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    I have the book. Going into it I would rank the trustworthiness of the principal characters like so:

    1. Terry (lies of omission, but generally straight if it doesn't hurt a player)
    2. Theo (pretty much the same, with a little more practice in straight faced lies.
    3. John Henry - flashes of honesty in a sea of PR crap
    4. TW - background figure
    5. LL - lower than a snake, locust, or scorpion.

    Well, now that I'm well into it, I was right, except TW is a moron's moron. And Manny is about 2.5 times more of an idiot than I thought he was.

    It's remarkable that they could have won two WS with this cast of misfits. I was right the day Theo left for the 2nd time. He should get LL's jobs, LL should have been retired.

    Add ons: TF needed a hard *** for a bench coach and a pitching coach. The owners should be as absentee as possible, and let the reporting structure do it's job, instead of leaving Mr. Shortcut (LL) to stick his nose everyplace he feels like it. I will celebrate the day he's done for whatever reason he is done.

    More tidbits later.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    How can you defend the ownership? We were building a team the right way until 2009 when we decided to go for big names over actual fits for the team. The part about what Theo said seems like its completely true to me.

    Our owners are complete sellouts, now it's just out there so everyone stupid or smart can understand it.
    Well, blame needs to go both ways. The Owners, and players are both to blame. The owners are the ones that handed out these bad contracts. The owners are not the ones who actually play the game. The players are the ones who didn't live up to the big contracts, and are the reason for the biggest collapse in baseball history. Yeah the owners fed the monster to keep interest and income coming in. But, the players are the who acted like entitled bratty toddlers led to the sox having to rebuild. Thats why the owners had to eject the bad contracts, and go in a different direction. They tried the yankee way (spend big money and get high profile players) and it blew up in their faces. Now, they are getting back to pre 2009, and building from within, and get a big name here and there to compliment the total package.

    Tito isn't a saint either. He also is to blame. Instead of acting like a manager and put his foot down. He tried acting like their friends, and it blew up in his face.

    In the end we see the owners and the players what they really are.

    IMO I hope the owners sell the sox to someone who's attention will focus on the sox, and not his wife's new soccer team.
    Last edited by wolf82; 01-31-2013 at 08:18 AM.

  11. #56
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    Almost done. Not a tell all book, but a tell some book...

    Francona seems to give the story straight, but, he does spend a lot of time setting the stage/excuses for his pain killer usage.

    He only goes after a few people and except for Manny, none of them in detail. He's very loyal to his players. Avoids giving gossip on topics like Cabrera stumping Foulke's wife.

    Werner, Manny, and Lucchino come off the worse, with the bloodless freak (John Henry) pretty much showing up as we know and "love" ?? him.

    Decent read, but unless you must read it right away borrow it from someone or someplace, and save the $.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post

    Werner, Manny, and Lucchino come off the worse, with the bloodless freak (John Henry) pretty much showing up as we know and "love" ?? him.
    I finally watched that movie on Netflix (or Amazon Prime) -- hadn't seen it in years and years. The gay dude and his henchman were hilarious!

    As for Francona --- If he told more about the players *, and it was closer to a 50/50 split on that vs ownership, then I would respect him more. Everything I've heard on the radio (excerpts and interviews with TF himself) make me feel this is just a PR move to stab back at the FO and try (too hard) to redeem himself.... and I'm just not interested.

    * I realize that he is still managing, and 'ratting out' players would make his current gig harder/impossible. And honestly, I know enough to make my own calculated guesses, so I don't really care... yet it feels like an intelligence-insulting maneuver on TF's part to expect fans to take the time (and pay) to read his little PR campaign.

    I guess the TL;DR version is:

    TF seems to be trying to out-Luchinno Luchinno. When all I really hoped he'd do is say something along the lines of "I messed up by giving those players too much respect and they walked all over me for it. What the FO did to me was dirty, underhanded and repulsive and I'm glad my time with them is over" and then walk away from it.
    DodgersGM ‏@DodgersGM
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBoston View Post
    I finally watched that movie on Netflix (or Amazon Prime) -- hadn't seen it in years and years. The gay dude and his henchman were hilarious!

    As for Francona --- If he told more about the players *, and it was closer to a 50/50 split on that vs ownership, then I would respect him more. Everything I've heard on the radio (excerpts and interviews with TF himself) make me feel this is just a PR move to stab back at the FO and try (too hard) to redeem himself.... and I'm just not interested.

    * I realize that he is still managing, and 'ratting out' players would make his current gig harder/impossible. And honestly, I know enough to make my own calculated guesses, so I don't really care... yet it feels like an intelligence-insulting maneuver on TF's part to expect fans to take the time (and pay) to read his little PR campaign.

    I guess the TL;DR version is:

    TF seems to be trying to out-Luchinno Luchinno. When all I really hoped he'd do is say something along the lines of "I messed up by giving those players too much respect and they walked all over me for it. What the FO did to me was dirty, underhanded and repulsive and I'm glad my time with them is over" and then walk away from it.
    In the 2011/12 section he throws a few players under the bus. Beckett, Lackey, Ortiz, Drew. He obviously likes Theo, but he's right about the 3 owners. They don't get baseball, and they lied to him, and one of them (LL) is almost for sure the root of the leaks on his drug issues.

    The whole last minute nature of the invite to Fenway's 100th is gone into a bit as well. More LL being a jerk. More Henry avoiding everything.

    Won't fix anything in the past, but, the owners needed to be aired out.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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