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  1. #31
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    The owners have been ragged on nonstop since the end of the 2011 season. Luchhino has been portrayed as a huge villain, without any substantial information. To give them no credit for this franchises success over the last decade, and all the blame for the last couple years is ridiculous. Who do you think hired Theo, and signed off on every substantive deal?

    The highlights from this SI excerpt are weak anyways. They don't love baseball like Tito does? No ****, what owner does? Francona has been involved in baseball ever since he was born, when his dad was a player. Warner was pissed off because tv ratings dropped? Ok, he's the tv guy, obviously he's going to be unhappy, and obviously they want to make as much money as possible. It's questionable whether that had much effect on baseball decisions. They let Paps go who was wildly popular, VMart and Beltre too who were popular. Like gs said, they were scouting CC for a long time, I thought Theo said for over a year. Theo has publicly said he was all for the CC signing, so did Ben. The only person who said he was initially against it, and reluctantly agreed to it was Henry. There were articles written right after the signing about how Theo called the owners and convinced them to do the deal.

    Are they the best owners, are they perfect? No. But I'd say they are better than most. And if we did get new owners odds are they won't be any better.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    FYI they were SCOUTING CC for OVER 4 months both on and off the field before they signed him. So there was a tone of interest in him from the sox before the season even ended. and this was not just a "oh **** lets just do something big that we never looked into"
    Yeah they wanted to be sure he'd be "electric" and "popular" with the fans.

    Face it. He's a piece of crap in this city playing baseball which I amply demonstrated before he ever signed, and he demonstrated with amazing amplomb after he came. You cannot claim the research was all on the field related, it was clearly a mix of both, and anybody with a stat sheet, a few hours, and some eyes could have seen what I did.

    Garbage.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Yeah they wanted to be sure he'd be "electric" and "popular" with the fans.

    Face it. He's a piece of crap in this city playing baseball which I amply demonstrated before he ever signed, and he demonstrated with amazing amplomb after he came. You cannot claim the research was all on the field related, it was clearly a mix of both, and anybody with a stat sheet, a few hours, and some eyes could have seen what I did.

    Garbage.
    see -Lavigne43's post.

    and you really think we would be saying this if we got the TB version of CC... What if the LAD get the TB version of CC? I think the issue was he could not handle the Bos market. Lets first see how CC preforms with LAD, becuase if he preforms as well as he did in TB with LAD, then we know its the market he could not handel
    Last edited by grandsalami; 01-16-2013 at 08:56 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Lavigne43- View Post
    The owners have been ragged on nonstop since the end of the 2011 season. Luchhino has been portrayed as a huge villain, without any substantial information.
    False. All sorts of information about LL is known going back to his days with Baltimore, and growing very large in the period when Theo quit the first time. How anybody could forget all that, or what came since? It beggars the imagination. Can anybody actually claim LL wasn't behind the cowardly filthy smear job on Francona on his way out of town?

    To give them no credit for this franchises success over the last decade, and all the blame for the last couple years is ridiculous. Who do you think hired Theo, and signed off on every substantive deal?
    Some in this thread claimed they were super owners which is rubbish. They did what owners do in a competitive market like Boston, they provided money to be spent on the team by professionals (but then back-doored much of that effort after the fans got nervous about a one year rebuilding plan). They also spent a lot of money on the park, and the brand - which was a wise investment - but didn't really effect the baseball operation except to make the owners feel better about shelling out big bucks.

    I thought Theo said for over a year. Theo has publicly said he was all for the CC signing
    Big wup, Theo scouted Agon for about 5 years.

    Public comments of who was for it, or against it don't mean much to me. Heck they even trotted Bill James out to make a comment (a comment about "young player skills" which he coined.) Sadly what he said didn't fit his writings. I know, I've read every word James has ever said on the topic. Bill James can parse data a lot better than I can, and there is no way he'd suggest doing signing Crawford for anywhere near that idiotic price.

    The only person who said he was initially against it, and reluctantly agreed to it was Henry. There were articles written right after the signing about how Theo called the owners and convinced them to do the deal.
    What articles and who wrote them? FOH?

    Are they the best owners, are they perfect? No. But I'd say they are better than most. And if we did get new owners odds are they won't be any better.
    I think the majority owners are good owners. I do think that they decided that they wanted to farm off oversight of Theo to LL, which was a very fateful move. As I wrote at the time Theo left, I believe the Sox would have been much better off if they had moved Theo upstairs to Executive VP of baseball ops, kicked LL into a ceremonial role, or just on the PR/market building side, and signed Hoyer, BC, or other Theo acolyte to be GM. A Mr. Fix_It like LL has no place inside of baseball operations, in particular a back stabber that courts the press to deliver knock out blows against his "enemies".
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-16-2013 at 09:00 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  5. #35
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    anyway, those that hate LL, would you rather have had the runner up (i think) that would have owned the sox... Someone who had killed the LAD, or Loria? There are bad owners in MLB, and frankly BOS does not have one of those "bad owners"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I think the majority owners are good owners. I do think that they decided that they wanted to farm off oversight of Theo to LL, which was a very fateful move. As I wrote at the time Theo left, I believe the Sox would have been much better off if they had moved Theo upstairs to Executive VP of baseball ops, kicked LL into a ceremonial role, or just on the PR/market building side, and signed Hoyer, BC, or other Theo acolyte to be GM. A Mr. Fix_It like LL has no place inside of baseball operations, in particular a back stabber that courts the press to deliver knock out blows against his "enemies".
    This summarizes how i feel too.

  7. #37
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    l
    Last edited by grandsalami; 01-16-2013 at 09:51 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    see -Lavigne43's post.

    and you really think we would be saying this if we got the TB version of CC... What if the LAD get the TB version of CC? I think the issue was he could not handle the Bos market. Lets first see how CC preforms with LAD, becuase if he preforms as well as he did in TB with LAD, then we know its the market he could not handel
    I already responded to that post.

    We never would have gotten the TB verson of CC in Boston, because he couldn't be that CC here given the park, media and fans. I've written at least 175 posts on the topic, some well before CC came here on his lousy splits in Fenway for TB (almost duped them in 2011). His lack of HR power, his declining SB's to be, his weak arm keeping him from CF and RF. His poor showing at lead-off. His inferiority at #2 compared to Pedroia, etc. and so on. I promise you Bill James saw the same things, and more.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    anyway, those that hate LL, would you rather have had the runner up (i think) that would have owned the sox... Someone who had killed the LAD, or Loria? There are bad owners in MLB, and frankly BOS does not have one of those "bad owners"
    Guess what? I don't like compromise. This team can be run better than it is. Every person in that organization has a role and a reporting structure to deal with. Except LL. He has to report alright, but he can but his nose into anything he pleases.

    Today it's an expansion plan that will take 8 years to complete. Then two days later, asks after drafting two grandkids of pals of his w/ BC, then the next day asks the Bill James to look into the value of dealing for Pujols.... It's insane. He's an auteur... and the owner's let him so that they don't have to think so hard.

    LL is a capricious and energetic person that has filled the power vacuum there so long, that he's like an octopus over the whole show. Let go LL, time to go.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #40
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    Yeah I think LL is the big issue, not Henry and Werner. Though the reports of Werners' requests/complaints did make me laugh. Are they the worst? No. Can we do better? Yes. Why should we settle for LL and his sneaky ********?

  11. #41
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    **** this entire front office except BC. We need to win in more exciting fashion? Oh please, i know this is a business first, but come on at least have some respect for the actual baseball fans, who were with you when this team sucked for 86 years. *******s.
    The name is Amendola....

    ...Danny Amendola

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradytoGronkTD View Post
    **** this entire front office except BC. We need to win in more exciting fashion? Oh please, i know this is a business first, but come on at least have some respect for the actual baseball fans, who were with you when this team sucked for 86 years. *******s.
    I am guessing that half (or all) of these quotes are taken out of context to make them seem worse then they actually are, so that people are so shocked they buy the book. I want to see the context, but Im not going to buy any book that supports that scumbag Dan Shaughnessy. SO I will get the context by other means

  13. #43
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    Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes
    Former Sox GM Theo Epstein defends Sox owners, addresses some of criticisms leveled at owners in Terry Francona's new book. Story coming.

  14. #44
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    Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes
    Former Sox GM Theo Epstein defends Sox owners, addresses some of criticisms leveled at owners in Terry Francona's new book. Story coming.

    Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes
    Epstein: "I take full responsibility for [Gonzalez, Crawford deals]. . It was my job to handle the pressure of a big market ...

  15. #45
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    Theo Epstein, who was Red Sox general manager for nine seasons before departing to become president of baseball operations for the Chicago Cubs in the aftermath of Boston’s September 2011 collapse, on Wednesday addressed criticism of Red Sox ownership in a new book co-authored by former Sox manager Terry Francona.

    In an excerpt from the book "Francona: The Red Sox Years" that appears in this week’s Sports Illustrated, co-authors Francona and Boston Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy asserted that ownership was obsessed with declining TV ratings and followed the recommendations of market research consultants urging the team to add more stars and “sex symbols."

    Epstein attended that meeting with consultants in November 2010, and was quoted in the book as being highly critical.

    "They told us we didn't have any marketable players, that we needed some sizzle," he is quoted in the excerpt as saying. "We need some sexy guys. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. This is like an absurdist comedy. We'd become too big. It was the farthest thing removed from what we set out to be."

    Epstein said that quote should not be construed as a criticism of the Sox owners, as many have done.

    “My quote about how 'they told us... we needed sizzle' was in response to a question about the meeting to discuss the consultants' study on NESN ratings," Epstein said. “It was specifically about the consultants' meeting; it was not about ownership."


    Epstein took exception to the assertion made in the book that after that meeting, he was responding "to the pressure from his bosses and the sagging ratings" when he traded for Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, signing the pair for a combined total of 14 years and $296 million.

    “There is no direct link between that meeting and the Red Sox moves that winter," he said Wednesday. “I take full responsibility for those moves. It was my job to handle the pressure of a big market and make good decisions."

    Francona had described an earlier meeting during the 2010 season with owners John W. Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino in which he nearly walked out of the room when Werner said the team needed to "start winning in more exciting fashion." The only thing that kept him from leaving, he wrote, was Epstein grabbing him by the knee.

    Epstein said Wednesday that Werner’s comment was made in jest.

    "Tom's line about needing to 'start winning in more exciting fashion' was delivered as a joke -- what to do if ratings are down even though the team is having a winning season," Epstein wrote in an e-mail.


    Francona, who wrote that to this day he doesn’t know how to respond when people ask him whether he was fired or quit after the 2011 season, also questioned the owners’ passion for the game.

    "Our owners in Boston, they've been owners for 10 years," Francona is quoted as saying in the book. "They come in with all these ideas about baseball, but I don't think they love baseball. I think they like baseball. It's revenue, and I know that's their right and their interest because they're owners -- and they're good owners. But they don't love the game. It's still more of a toy or a hobby for them. It's not their blood. They're going to come in and out of baseball. It's different for me. Baseball is my life."

    Epstein disputed that characterization.

    "I spent a decade in the organization," he wrote. "In my opinion, John, Tom and Larry do love baseball and care deeply about the Red Sox and Red Sox fans."

    Epstein, who has just completed his first year as president of the Cubs, a season in which the team lost 101 games, said he was focused on the Cubs’ fan convention this week and reluctant to be drawn into a discussion of the book. But on Wednesday, he felt obligated to respond.

    "I got a chance to work with one of the best managers and one of the best ownership groups in baseball, and we all had a lot of success together. We have fond memories of that time -- including supporting one another through the difficult stretches -- but now we are all consumed with new challenges as we should be."

    Francona, in an interview with ESPN Boston’s Joe McDonald, said the excerpt in SI made the characterization of ownership harsher than he intended.

    "The last chapter is hard because it was a hard ending," Francona said. "I’m sure there will be a thing or two that will [tick] somebody off that I didn’t think would, but I’ve read it seven times and me and Dan made change after change because I wanted it to be good, I wanted it to be interesting and I also wanted it to preserve the clubhouse because I do believe in that so much
    .
    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-s...medium=twitter

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