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Thread: TSN Top 50

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Sorry why didnt his coach want him to play 70+ games then.

    Your implying that JT is an idiot then or he knows that he wants to keep Lundqvist fresh otherwise his results would have been worse.

    Its not even like the Rangers backup goaltender last year was fantastic, he wasn't. Biron was below average for a backup last season.

    Playing more games is more difficult. If it wasn't all NHL starters would play 70+. The reason they don't is either they physically can't handle it all or because if they did so it would hurt their results through fatigue.

    To make a cross sport comparison.

    Is a Starting pitcher in baseball more valuable the more innings he pitches (of course his era/fip matters but so does his workload)
    Tortorella was looking at the big picture, a long run in the playoffs and he trusted Biron to give Hendrik a break so he could be fresh if they made it to the Stanley Cup finals, it has nothing to do with Tortorella not trusting Hendrik or thinking they would be a better team without him in the net. Also, Biron played well for NY last year when they needed him, they wouldn't have been top team in the East if that weren't true. Hendrik would start 82 games if it were up to him, it's not. Barry Trotz will find out if he ever has a long playoff run that playing your goalie in excess in the regular season isn't a good idea and could cost you games late in playoffs.
    Also you're comparable to pitching isn't the same, pitchers don't play anywhere close to the percentage of games played as goalies, there's no comparison there at all, you wouldn't expect a pitcher to start 80 percent of the games played, even pitchers that have a large amount of starts still have days off between games and how many playoff games will they actually pitch? Certainly not as many as 28.

  2. #47
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    But why is it senseless?

    You always want to win more games. Why do some goalies play more than others? Its not purely because of the backup's ability. There are plenty of examples where teams with ****** backups don't play there starters alot and the vice versa is true.

    For example:

    Nashville had a good backup and yet Rinne still played 73 games.

    You would always want to start the better goalie unless starting the better goalie more would hurt him in the short/long run.

    Do you really think all goalies have the same durability?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Sorry why didnt his coach want him to play 70+ games then.

    Your implying that JT is an idiot then or he knows that he wants to keep Lundqvist fresh otherwise his results would have been worse.

    Its not even like the Rangers backup goaltender last year was fantastic, he wasn't. Biron was below average for a backup last season.

    Playing more games is more difficult. If it wasn't all NHL starters would play 70+. The reason they don't is either they physically can't handle it all or because if they did so it would hurt their results through fatigue.

    To make a cross sport comparison.

    Is a Starting pitcher in baseball more valuable the more innings he pitches (of course his era/fip matters but so does his workload)
    The Rangers finished with the top seed in the east. What would they have gained by playing him more?

    It's such a lame arguement. Roy never started more than 70 games in a season. Hasek did it once. Lundqvist has done it 4 times and you're knocking his durability?
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  4. #49
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    It has to do with being valuable. We don't only use it but its definately a factor. Clearly Roy and Hasek did enough similarly to Tim Thomas.

    Lundqvist is still my #2 goalie (and I have him close to Rinne) so clearly I think he's valuable. In his career, part of his underrated value (from 2006-2011 lets say) was his druability.

    But it seems obvious its slipping slightly.

    He went from being routinely 70+ to under 70 to low 60's last year.

    Its not everything and I still think he's really damn valuable and it might even be the right decision for teh Rangrs (to preserve him for the playoffs and their an elite team) but I do think it hurts his overall value imo.

    Admittedly, he was about as valuable last year as he was in 2010-2011 (partly do to increased performance).

    He's a very durable goalie (60+ games is quite good) but Rinne was absurd last year and was pretty good the year before (less than Lundqvist though not by much with better performance)

    Its definately a close call between the two so I don't see why Lundy is so far ahead (that was my original comment, I didn't think a 20 spot difference was warranted).

    Also, I expect a lower games total will be the routine for Lundqvist for the rest of his career. He's older now and has a ton of milage from all the years of high durability.


    EDIT: The perfect example of why durability matters is Martin Brodeur. Brodeur is a guy who had decent save percentage but played an absurd amount of games making him quite valuable.

    The fact he has done it for so long (he played 77 games at age 37) is truly amazing

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    It has to do with being valuable. We don't only use it but its definately a factor. Clearly Roy and Hasek did enough similarly to Tim Thomas.

    Lundqvist is still my #2 goalie (and I have him close to Rinne) so clearly I think he's valuable. In his career, part of his underrated value (from 2006-2011 lets say) was his druability.

    But it seems obvious its slipping slightly.

    He went from being routinely 70+ to under 70 to low 60's last year.

    Its not everything and I still think he's really damn valuable and it might even be the right decision for teh Rangrs (to preserve him for the playoffs and their an elite team) but I do think it hurts his overall value imo.

    Admittedly, he was about as valuable last year as he was in 2010-2011 (partly do to increased performance).

    He's a very durable goalie (60+ games is quite good) but Rinne was absurd last year and was pretty good the year before (less than Lundqvist though not by much with better performance)

    Its definately a close call between the two so I don't see why Lundy is so far ahead (that was my original comment, I didn't think a 20 spot difference was warranted).

    Also, I expect a lower games total will be the routine for Lundqvist for the rest of his career. He's older now and has a ton of milage from all the years of high durability.


    EDIT: The perfect example of why durability matters is Martin Brodeur. Brodeur is a guy who had decent save percentage but played an absurd amount of games making him quite valuable.

    The fact he has done it for so long (he played 77 games at age 37) is truly amazing
    If Renney was still coaching the team he might be out there 70+ games. Again, it's not like he's not capable. He played well throughout the playoffs and he did it for four straight seasons. You're holding a coach's decision against him.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  6. #51
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    But whats the reasoning behind the coaches decision.

    Explain it to me?

    Because it has to do with durability

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    But whats the reasoning behind the coaches decision.

    Explain it to me?

    Because it has to do with durability
    So that he could be as fresh as possible going into the playoffs. Just because one goalie plays more games in a regular season doesn't mean he's more durable. Besides, Lundqvist has been one of the most durable goalies in the game over the years anyway.

    You're assuming that just because he didn't play as many games as Rinne, he's not capable of doing it. Rinne needs to string together a few more 70+ game seasons to get on Lundqvist's level anyway. Rinne only played 64 games the year before last, has he all of a sudden become this super durable goalie in the past year?
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  8. #53
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    Lundqvist GP

    53, 70, 72, 70, 73, 68, 62

    Rinne

    52, 58, 64, 73
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    But whats the reasoning behind the coaches decision.

    Explain it to me?

    Because it has to do with durability
    I do not think it has to do with durability (if you are speaking in terms of injuries). Torts actually said before last season even started he wanted to keep Lundy more fresh come playoff time. He said he was going to look to get Biron some more games. He also asked Lundy to reduce some of his off ice commitments so that he would be fresher. Lundy usually has 1 month or so per season where he is not good. Sometimes it is early in the season. Sometimes its later in the season. It is too bad it can not be predicted.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

  10. #55
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    This argument for Rinne over Lundqvist is pretty lame
    There are no men like me, only me.


  11. #56
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    Wow, that is the first time I have ever heard anyone put Rinne over Lundquist... who's 3rd? Cam Ward? ... j.k jrice, you know I'm messing with you.


    lol, small kid got tripped by a tuba player

  12. #57
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    nvm

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    But why?

    Rinne had a .923 save percentage and played 73 ****ing games.

    He was more valuable last year than in 2010-2011. Lundqvist only played 63 games while posting the .930 save percentage.

    On a value basis Rinne was 15.5 GPS, Lundqvist was 14.1.

    I don't think Lundqvist was clearly superior last season at all. I would say Rinne was more valuable.

    Lundqvist was better in the postseason though.

    If I had to have a goalie to build my team around for 2012-2013 its Rinne not Lundqvist. Lundqivst is older and more importantly has a ton of NHL milage. Rinne is way more durable.

    Before someone calls me out that GP is overrated, consider this.

    Because Lundqvist only played 62 games, the Rangers had to endure 21 games of pretty damn bad Martin Biron play.

    Rinne's backup was also better than Lundqvist's last season and yet Rinne still played more.

    The only goalie more valuable than Rinne last year was Mike Smith.
    Ward >>>


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  14. #59
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    Yea I hate the Rangers but even I have to admit that argument is lame. It looks about right to me, and the whole durability comments are a joke.


    “Too many people go through life complaining about their problems. I've always believed that if you took one tenth of the energy you put into complaining and applied it to solving the problem, you'd be surprised by how well things can work out.”
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    But whats the reasoning behind the coaches decision.

    Explain it to me?

    Because it has to do with durability
    Show me a time where Rinne's team was going to finish 1st in the conference and the coach had an opportunity to rest him with no bad effects to team standings but didn't due to his great durability. Show me when Rinne played multiple 60+ game seasons.

    There is no precedence for your already poor argument
    There are no men like me, only me.


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