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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinde View Post
    I'll be complaining that we suck. It's worth spending a few bucks - not a lot of bucks, a few bucks - to be less awful. There is a difference between winning 78 and winning 68 while building for the future.
    When building for the future, I'd honestly rather only win 68 this year.

    Assuming we sign guys like Marcum and Hairston to 1/2 year deals and win 78 games, that just means we get a lower draft pick and we accomplish nothing since the guys that we sign to be on that 78 win team will either not be on the team when the younger guys form a very solid core or they won't be as productive (most likely). The difference between 78 and 68 wins come draft time could be huge, could be the difference between 3rd overall and 14th overall (spitting out numbers). That could be the difference between drafting a Carlos Correa or a Gavin Cecchini (I think everybody here would rather have Correa).

    Sure 78 wins sounds a lot more appealing to fans and free agents than 68, but from a baseball standpoint and taking this team's direction into consideration, I think it'd be better to let the young guys play and sacrifice some wins in exchange for experience.
    Last edited by MetsFanatic19; 01-19-2013 at 02:39 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinde View Post
    I'll be complaining that we suck. It's worth spending a few bucks - not a lot of bucks, a few bucks - to be less awful. There is a difference between winning 78 and winning 68 while building for the future.
    Yes but a Scott Hairston and a Carl Pavano won't make that much difference on a team that is still possibly a 68 win team like you mentioned.

    That's why teams in rebuilding rather give their younger players a chance because there is no reason to spend 10 million dollars on something that you could possibly get the same results out of for 1 or 2 million.

    It's cheap yes but all rebuilding teams do it.

    The experience and playing time is important to their development and guys like Hairston don't produce enough (and don't fit long term) that's it worth sacrificing playing time for guys like Kirk, Baxter, etc etc.

    Not to mention if the guys we are signing are 1 year stop gaps it just puts us in the same predicament in 2014.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-19-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  3. #78
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    I'd rather win more games too, but when it comes down to it, winning both 68 games and 78 games both fail to make the playoffs. If we are going to miss the playoffs, I'd rather have the larger bonus pool in the draft and higher picks to build the farm better.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    When building for the future, I'd honestly rather only win 68 this year.

    Assuming we sign guys like Marcum and Hairston to 1/2 year deals and win 78 games, that just means we get a lower draft pick and we accomplish nothing since the guys that we sign to be on that 78 win team will either not be on the team when the younger guys form a very solid core or they won't be as productive (most likely). The difference between 78 and 68 wins come draft time could be huge, could be the difference between 3rd overall and 14th overall (spitting out numbers). That could be the difference between drafting a Carlos Correa and Gavin Cecchini. I think everybody here would rather have Correa.

    Sure 78 wins sounds a lot more appealing to fans and free agents than 68, but from a baseball standpoint, I think it'd be better to let the young guys play and sacrifice some wins in exchange for experience.
    Yep..

    Protected picks are a big deal to a team thats rebuilding.

    It also allows the team to pursue any FA they choose to without the possibility of hurting their farm system long term.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-19-2013 at 03:18 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota View Post
    He had marching orders from the Wilnotpons on this.

    Alderson knows what he is doing. That doesn't necessarily mean he is allowed to do it. Alderson is way to good of a baseball man to have screwed up the Reyes mess. He was doing what he was told by idiot owners.

    And Reyes was two teams ago. Time to move on.
    The issue isn't Reyes. The issue is whether Sandy knows what he's doing. Clearly he didn't with the Reyes debacle unless of course his hands are tied. That doesn't bode well for his ability to put together an outfield, especially if his hands are similarly tied.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  6. #81
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    I don't buy it but it if sacrificing several spots in the draft order is going to condemn us to mediocrity forever we're ****ed anyway. The philosophy that you need to be the worst team in the game until you are playoff ready is fundamentally flawed. Unlike football the worst team in baseball will have lower revenues and thus fewer bucks to spend on players in subsequent years and will not be guaranteed a sufficiently impactful player in the draft.

  7. #82
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    Is Fernando Martinez still with Houston? Shame we lost him, shame he hasn't panned out yet either.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaMetFan View Post
    Is Fernando Martinez still with Houston? Shame we lost him, shame he hasn't panned out yet either.
    Yeah he is still pre arbitration eligible till 2015 and not a FA till 2018.

  9. #84
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    The last thing I want to see is Hairston sucking 450 plate appearances from other guys that we need to see. Now enough already. Furthermore using this logic that it's only 8 million so just do it, then why not just sign all of the free agents left, since they'll all come cheap. The move has to make sense from angles other than just financial.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Yes but a Scott Hairston and a Carl Pavano won't make that much difference on a team that is still possibly a 68 win team like you mentioned.

    That's why teams in rebuilding rather give their younger players a chance because there is no reason to spend 10 million dollars on something that you could possibly get the same results out of for 1 or 2 million.

    It's cheap yes but all rebuilding teams do it.

    The experience and playing time is important to their development and guys like Hairston don't produce enough (and don't fit long term) that's it worth sacrificing playing time for guys like Kirk, Baxter, etc etc.

    Not to mention if the guys we are signing are 1 year stop gaps it just puts us in the same predicament in 2014.
    Thank you.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by METMANYAK View Post
    The last thing I want to see is Hairston sucking 450 plate appearances from other guys that we need to see. Now enough already. Furthermore using this logic that it's only 8 million so just do it, then why not just sign all of the free agents left, since they'll all come cheap. The move has to make sense from angles other than just financial.
    Just curious, whom do you see Hairston stealing at bats from? Who are all these hot prospects everyone is so worried about losing playing time?
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Just curious, whom do you see Hairston stealing at bats from? Who are all these hot prospects everyone is so worried about losing playing time?
    Is it not possible for guys like Kirk, Baxter, and Brown to have higher ceilings than Hairston?

    Hairston has one ability.

    Hit lefties for power. He's a one tool player and is only a starter here by attrition.

    He wants to start if he re-signs and it would certainly hurt the guys they have currently to give Hairston 500+ ABs if they are looking to see what these younger guys are.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-20-2013 at 08:11 AM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Is it not possible for guys like Kirk, Baxter, and Brown to have higher ceilings than Hairston?

    Hairston has one ability.

    Hit lefties for power. He's a one tool player and is only a starter here by attrition.

    He wants to start if he re-signs and it would certainly hurt the guys they have currently to give Hairston 500+ ABs if they are looking to see what these younger guys are.
    Doubtful at best. As a 27-year-old Brown had a .961 OPS playing in power inflated Colorado Springs last season. He also struck out 100 times in all of 391 at bats. That's a ton of Ks against minor league pitching.

    There's a reason why the Rockies wanted nothing to do with him. Hairston on the other hand is a major league hitter, or at least he has been since May 2011. But again, worst case scenario, we'd paying a seasoned veteran $4 million to be a bench player. That's status quo for any big market team not owned by the Wilpons.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  14. #89
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    The OF'ers the Mets have brought in are laughable and of course CHEAP.

  15. #90
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    But the outfielders we already have, as in Kirk, dD, and possibly Flores and Valdespin, could eventually turn into solid ballplayers.

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