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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Why does he need a link for his opinion?

    Sounds like he was stating fact.

  2. #17
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    Yes, they can compete.

    If you get Upton with the package above (I seriously doubt it, but let's play along), and you sign Wilson and Hairston and maybe a 5th starter type, it can happen.

    If everything breaks right (again, playing along) you have a solid IF that is both reasonably good defensively and above average on offense, an above average catcher (if TDA comes out and hits well), a well above average CFer, and some decent role players around the team. You also have some solid young pitchers giving you a shot to win every night.

    It would be possible to compete for a playoff spot in that scenario.

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  3. #18
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    It's already been established that we aren't going after Bourn because we don't want to surrender our first round pick. But it's entirely possible we get the guys I mentioned. I don't know why some of you are so reluctant to answer the question. If we get these players, which we may, we IMO are good enough to compete now. Once again, that's assuming our players play like they should and don't get hurt. We have to assume that because injuries could happen to anyone on any team and you can't predict that. Also, what if Davis or Tejada have a breakout year? Wy do we have to factor in players getting worse, but not players getting better? All I'm saying is, I think we could compete with this team.

    By the way, D'Arnaud will be up after a month. The only reason he's not starting in the MLB now is so we can keep him for an extra year. I'm pretty sure Buck was last in the league in batting average. Obviously he's not our starting catcher for 2013. Just until D'Arnaud is ready.

  4. #19
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    even if we get upton and bourn we wont be good enough to win the WS... next year when we have financial freedom we could also sign some free agents then make a run
    I'm just that damn nice

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdg515 View Post
    If SA wanted similar production at that price I believe Delmon Young would not cost us that #11 pick, he's 28, solid RH bat, mediocre fielder but could hold down RF until Duda eventually moves and cost us no farm products. As for the rest of the OP's roster I agree that the team could be turned into a contender without spending much. We need one more solid bat in the outfield [relying on Niewenhuis and Cowgill to share CF or RF, a fifth starting pitcher and some veteran bullpeners and that eliminates all of the gaping holes enough to put a competitive team on the field. The rest is up to performance and health to see if the team is a contender at the ASB or wait til next year.
    Ya know, with d'Arnaud and a healthy Ike Davis, this team is really only two legitimate major league outfielders and maybe a bullpen arm away from being a decent major league team.

    In other words, so close and yet so far.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  6. #21
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    This idea that you have to fix everything or fix nothing is troubling.

    This line of thinking doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I'm all for being conservative within reason when it comes to FA signings and what is given up in trades. But I think the limits of reason are breached when people take the stance that any single move that does not guarantee a World Series is a move not worth considering.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    This idea that you have to fix everything or fix nothing is troubling.

    This line of thinking doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm all for being conservative within reason when it comes to FA signings and what is given up in trades.

    But I think the limits of reason are breached when people take the stance that any single move that does not guarantee a World Series is a move not worth considering.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.
    Absolutely.

    But there is no reason to believe they can't find 2 good OFs in the next year and a half.

    I think there are some posters here that believe that's an impossible task given their inactivity in FA but i can understand not giving Hairston 2 years at 32 years old coming off what seems to be a career year or giving Michael Bourn 5 years when they are rebuilding and would have to give away the 11th pick in the draft next year.

    Conservative is a good approach with fringe players.

    It's obviously not a good approach when it comes to more impact guys because most guys of Ellsbury's or Hart's ability (for example 2 possible impact FA in 2014) when healthy are gonna command significant over payment in a new contract.

    If they want to compete for the playoffs, they have to commit to building a team around these young guys giving them ample opportunity to succeed.

    If they aren't, then we are in for a lot more losing in the coming future.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-14-2013 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    This idea that you have to fix everything or fix nothing is troubling.

    This line of thinking doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I'm all for being conservative within reason when it comes to FA signings and what is given up in trades. But I think the limits of reason are breached when people take the stance that any single move that does not guarantee a World Series is a move not worth considering.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.
    I agree with this, in principle.

    The problem is that the Mets have run out of valuable marquis players with expiring contracts to swap for young gold, Sandy's specialty. So the available pathways to fill the remaining holes are either the trade route, which Sandy has come up short in the immediate past, or the free agent route, which Sandy has been either unable or unwilling to explore. I dunno, maybe that changes.

    Or maybe it doesn't. Alas, so close but so far.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by METSandJETS94 View Post
    are we contenders? Assume that we trade Flores, Syndergaad, Valdespin, and Familia for Upton. It doesn't have to be those exact players, but we find a way to get Upton without trading Niese. We then sign Brian Wilson, Hairston, one or two of the starters were interested in, a few relievers, and maybe a few bench players. I think we may be able to compete. This is our team...

    Tejada
    Murphy
    Wright
    Davis
    Upton
    Duda/Hairston
    D'Arnoud (after the first month)
    Niewenhuiss

    Buck
    Turner
    Hicks
    Baxter

    Johan
    Harvey
    Niese
    Gee
    Young/Pavano/Marcum/Saunders/Wheeler (eventually)

    Wilson
    Francisco
    Rauch
    Parnell
    Free Agent
    Byrdak
    Mejia

    Johan should bounce back. Definitely not to old Johan form, but a mid 3 ERA is definitely possible. Assume he pitches like he did before the no-hitter. Harvey was great last year and should only get better. Niese is also good for a low 3 ERA and Gee a mid 3. Wheeler and 2 of the other starters I mentioned should get the job done as a 5th starter. The bullpen is pretty good as well, especially with Wilson as the closer. Obviously the whole infield is good, and D'Arnaud shouldn't be too bad behind the plate. Outfield is pretty good now with Upton, Hairston and Duda platooning which I think is great, and Niewenhuiss, who I'm fine with in the OF. Below average bench, but 2013 shouldn't be a throwaway year. I'm not saying were favorites to win the world series, or even to make the playoffs, but I wouldn't count them out.
    I think we definitely COULD compete with that team BUT this major hold up is I don't think there's any way ARZ trades Upton for a deal where the best player they are getting is a 20 yr old SP who's at minimum 2-3 years away from the majors. Besides Syndergaard, the rest of the offer you proposed is very mediocre.

    With the Rangers already saying they are willing to make a deal for Upton centered around Mike Olt, we'd have to make a better offer than Syndergaard, Flores, Familia, and Valdespin.

    Valdespin is pretty much just a throw in. Any team can find a player of equal value for basically nothing. And with Familia most likely just being a RP, his value isn't THAT great.

  10. #25
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    Lots of people are also assuming Harvey is going to be a dominant SP this yr because he was great for 10 starts last yr. This is far from a sure thing.

    Young pitchers who have early success, very frequently struggle seriously shortly after.

    Anyone pay attention to what happened to Ricky Romero last yr? He literally went from being one of the best pitchers in the AL in 2011 to being one of the worst in 2012.

    Even a guy like Verlander started off his career very well, then had a big setback in 2008 pitching to a near 5.00 ERA, with less K/9, more BB/9, ect.... took him a few yrs to really find and keep his dominating stuff.

    I think people assuming Harvey will have a season ERA around 3.00 are going to be very disappointed. He may be a great ace one day, but very few SP's burst onto the scene and are consistantly dominating from day 1 like Strasburg was.

  11. #26
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    I think he'll have a Matt Moore-type season. But he's capable of better, even next year.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Lots of people are also assuming Harvey is going to be a dominant SP this yr because he was great for 10 starts last yr. This is far from a sure thing.

    Young pitchers who have early success, very frequently struggle seriously shortly after.

    Anyone pay attention to what happened to Ricky Romero last yr? He literally went from being one of the best pitchers in the AL in 2011 to being one of the worst in 2012.

    Even a guy like Verlander started off his career very well, then had a big setback in 2008 pitching to a near 5.00 ERA, with less K/9, more BB/9, ect.... took him a few yrs to really find and keep his dominating stuff.

    I think people assuming Harvey will have a season ERA around 3.00 are going to be very disappointed. He may be a great ace one day, but very few SP's burst onto the scene and are consistantly dominating from day 1 like Strasburg was.
    And this is before factoring in the heavier burden he and the other starting pitchers will have to shoulder now that RA is gone.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Lots of people are also assuming Harvey is going to be a dominant SP this yr because he was great for 10 starts last yr. This is far from a sure thing.

    Young pitchers who have early success, very frequently struggle seriously shortly after.

    Anyone pay attention to what happened to Ricky Romero last yr? He literally went from being one of the best pitchers in the AL in 2011 to being one of the worst in 2012.

    Even a guy like Verlander started off his career very well, then had a big setback in 2008 pitching to a near 5.00 ERA, with less K/9, more BB/9, ect.... took him a few yrs to really find and keep his dominating stuff.

    I think people assuming Harvey will have a season ERA around 3.00 are going to be very disappointed. He may be a great ace one day, but very few SP's burst onto the scene and are consistantly dominating from day 1 like Strasburg was.
    I would tend to agree in most cases but Harvey has superstar potential.

    Look at how good Chris Sale was last year.

    I know he is LH but LHP usually take longer to develop and he was outstanding last year in his rookie season.

    Harvey has that type of electric stuff and seems to have the makeup to succeed quickly in the majors which was evident last year.

    It's really not much of a stretch to me to expect 12+ wins out of Harvey next year with a mid 3 FIP, a strikeout per inning, and good peripherals besides.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-15-2013 at 12:27 AM.

  14. #29
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    I will miss RA but the Mets still have a decent rotation without him.

    Gee is underrated, Niese to me has potential to improve, Harvey should pitch well, and whoever they bring in for the 5th spot should be serviceable. Whether that be Hefner, Young, Pavano etc till Wheeler comes up.

    The biggest question mark to me is Santana.

    All we can hope for is he pitches well enough to be dealt for something of value in return.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-15-2013 at 12:26 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    This idea that you have to fix everything or fix nothing is troubling.

    This line of thinking doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I'm all for being conservative within reason when it comes to FA signings and what is given up in trades. But I think the limits of reason are breached when people take the stance that any single move that does not guarantee a World Series is a move not worth considering.

    Rome wasn't built in a day.
    It hasn't been one day. We've been rebuilding for a while now. We've been trading for prospects, developing our prospects, not trading away our prospects for older players, getting rid of the old out-of-prime players...

    We competed last year for half a season. If we get Upton, Hairston, Wilson, and Young, we may be even better than last season and can hopefully compete for the entire year.

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