An offensive debate:

[Proximo]

Lots of fans throw that term around just so they sound sophisticated.

The word has lost its meaning IMO and is way over used.

Maybe, but what word would use to describe him? A beast? That label is slapped around with far more indiscretion.

[themadstork]

Maybe, but what word would use to describe him? A beast? That label is slapped around with far more indiscretion.

I couldn't agree more. That term is a constant irritant. And without question, McFadden is far more bust than beast.

-Stork

[Blackheart1]

LOL...

He's a bust by your definition Lololololol....

He has not played a full year

And he has not put up a single season worthy of top five consideration or warranting his draft position and salary. He's a bust...by my definition, and yours.

I'll bet any Raider fan a sig bet if we poll he's a bust in the NFL forum...the consensus among rational human beings is he is a bust.

He didn't have to play the whole year to prove he could play at a high level in the NFL. He rushed for over a 1000 yards in one season. He may not have lived up to expectations, but he's not a bust if he can rush over 1,000 yards in a single season.

Now YOU.........on the other hand..............YOU"RE a bust!...........haha

[Blackheart1]

You guys can say what you want about him being a bust or not. His career has been riddled with injuries, but he surely knew how to play the game of football......and at a high level......in the NFL. So you may have your own definition, so be it, but you won't find him on any Top Running Backs Bust list. And if you do, it's a b.s. list. The man could play, and oh, his career isn't even over yet..............

[fishedz]

He didn't have to play the whole year to prove he could play at a high level in the NFL. He rushed for over a 1000 yards in one season. He may not have lived up to expectations, but he's not a bust if he can rush over 1,000 yards in a single season.

Now YOU.........on the other hand..............YOU"RE a bust!...........haha

Oh right....


So now any RB whom ever runs for 1k yards is what?


Sig bet... We'll start a consensus poll in the NFL forum asking if he's a bust...

Won't take it will ya.... Keep running with that logic

[Blackheart1]

Football dumb?

McFadden was drafted in 2008 with the 4th pick. He was then promptly inked for 6 yr $60 million. Which makes him the second highest paid runningback in the league behind Adrian Peterson. When the Raiders signed him he was hyped as the most complete Raider runningback since Marcus Allen.

McFadden has averaged 666 yards rushing, 289 yards receiving and 3.6 TD's per season as the second highest paid runningback in the NFL. Scheme has nothing to do with it, even in 2011 when he looked pretty impressive at times he couldn't stay healthy. If I am football dumb for labeling him a bust based on how upside down the Raiders are in terms of what they pay him and the production it nets, so be it.

He was INJURED. and to be frank, for as much as he's been injured, he puts up great numbers.
He's just a great talent who is injury prone......but that's not really a bust......imo

[Blackheart1]

Oh right....


So now any RB whom ever runs for 1k yards is what?


Sig bet... We'll start a consensus poll in the NFL forum asking if he's a bust...

Won't take it will ya.... Keep running with that logic

It's all just semantics anyway, dude, relax.
I actually WANT to trade McFadden. I don't think he's worth the risk. He just doesn't fit my definition of a bust.....

[Proximo]

He was INJURED. and to be frank, for as much as he's been injured, he puts up great numbers.
He's just a great talent who is injury prone......but that's not really a bust......imo

There are numerous examples of hyped up 1st rounders that never panned out because of injuries. Getting injured is a fact of life in professional football. I never once debated McFadden's talent. I think its a very fair statement to say that McFadden's production has fell well short of the expectations involved in taking a player with the 4th pick and paying him 60 million. He does not put up great numbers, he isn't reliable and is injury prone. The Raiders envisioned something a long the lines of Adrian Peterson when they paid him Adrian Peterson money, they got Harvey Williams type production instead, why would you not call him a bust? Guys, this isn't personal, Carson Palmer is my favorite Raider. I loved him in college and was ecstatic when Oakland singed him, his performance thus far has been bust worthy considering the lofty expectations. That doesn't mean I still don't root for him or do not believe in him, I am however objective about what he has done and what he needs to do, and in defense of Palmer when comparing him to McFadden as a football player, he has truly had elite seasons, but just has not had one in Oakland. McFadden hasn't done jack all.

[Proximo]

You guys can say what you want about him being a bust or not. His career has been riddled with injuries, but he surely knew how to play the game of football......and at a high level......in the NFL. So you may have your own definition, so be it, but you won't find him on any Top Running Backs Bust list. And if you do, it's a b.s. list. The man could play, and oh, his career isn't even over yet..............

Okay. When one thinks bust, one thinks Tony Manderich, Ryan Leaf or Art Schlichter. McFadden has played at a high level when healthy, the weather is good and he wakes up in a good mood. He has however been a disappointment. Fair enough?

[slvr&blck760]

Wow. PBS is blowing out the ZBS. Power Blocking is old school, and truly the Raider way. Intimidate and over power - one can wish for the future.

[Da Swami]

Maybe, but what word would use to describe him? A beast? That label is slapped around with far more indiscretion.

Moving the goal posts huh?

Football is a team game.

If I have to tell you that, then you are lost to begin with.

[Da Swami]

Okay. When one thinks bust, one thinks Tony Manderich, Ryan Leaf or Art Schlichter. McFadden has played at a high level when healthy, the weather is good and he wakes up in a good mood. He has however been a disappointment. Fair enough?

Not really.

How is it fair that your expectations were unrealistic?

A back is only as good as the blocking he gets.

Fair enough?

[Da Swami]

There are numerous examples of hyped up 1st rounders that never panned out because of injuries. Getting injured is a fact of life in professional football. I never once debated McFadden's talent. I think its a very fair statement to say that McFadden's production has fell well short of the expectations involved in taking a player with the 4th pick and paying him 60 million. He does not put up great numbers, he isn't reliable and is injury prone. The Raiders envisioned something a long the lines of Adrian Peterson when they paid him Adrian Peterson money, they got Harvey Williams type production instead, why would you not call him a bust? Guys, this isn't personal, Carson Palmer is my favorite Raider. I loved him in college and was ecstatic when Oakland singed him, his performance thus far has been bust worthy considering the lofty expectations. That doesn't mean I still don't root for him or do not believe in him, I am however objective about what he has done and what he needs to do, and in defense of Palmer when comparing him to McFadden as a football player, he has truly had elite seasons, but just has not had one in Oakland. McFadden hasn't done jack all.

The same management that ignored the O line for a decade?

I don't remember us drafting lineman that could block for him like Minnesota did AP.

[Da Swami]

The Raiders are built for the PBS because our shot caller, Carson Palmer, performs best in this system. Our Backup, Terelle Pryor will perform well in this system as well.

1) Our WR's in the power scheme were balling. DHB had a breakout year the last season the PBS was run. He continued to show improvement. Denarious Moore had a Spectacular rookie season under the PBS. He gained the NFL's attention and respect under the PBS. I recall Jacoby Ford being a threat under the power blocking scheme as well.

2) The Raiders finished as a top 10 offense in 2011 under the PBS. We switched to the ZBS last season. Statistics and performance dropped significantly. Switching to the ZBS was the biggest mistake that RM and Allen made. If you read between the lines, they readily admit their error. Greg Knapp's scheme caused us to lose Jospeh Barksdale, our RG of the future. Greg Knapp's scheme could have possibly cost us a starting RT in Bruce Campbell. If nothing else the ZBS caused massive depth concerns and left us with Mike Briesel and Khalif Barnes - two devestating underperformers starting on the offensive line.

3) Darren McFadden was asked by Hue Jackson what scheme he preferred. McFadden answered with the PBS. When healthy he's a homerun threat every time he touches the ball. What current NFL team has an every down back? Even Adrian Peterson has Toby Gearhardt as his backup. All RB's must be spelled at one point during EVERY game. PERIOD!

4) Our QB passed for over 4,000 yards with a chitty offensive coordinator calling a very vanilla and predictable game. Palmer is a class act, on and off the field. He's a veteran and the best QB we've had since Gannon. He's a classic pocket passer and will be our starter next season. We need to build an offensive line to protect him, not one in which he has to scramble. He'll win us more games using his head and his arm than he will with his legs.

5) Funny how our TE that performed well this year was under the guidance of Al Saunders. As I recall Al Saunders ran a PBS as a senior assistant with Oakland, and that's the scheme he prefers. We have Richard Gordon who excels at blocking and would mesh perfectly with the PBS, as well as David Ausberry who could potentially be the starting TE if the Raiders are unable to sign Brandon Myers. Carson Palmer suggested a chemistry with Ausberry. Two former USC players playing catch.

You not caring what scheme we run sounds like an excuse to accept failure. You're attempts at masking a deficiency is as vanilla as Greg Knapp's ZBS play calling.

I enjoyed my time while Gruden was here, but he's a chapter in the past. I have all the confidence in Dennis Allen and Reggie Mckenzie. Afterall, this thread is structured around the best Interest of the Raiders organization going forward. Retarted? I think not.

[Da Swami]

Considering the average career span of an NFL runningback, the draft pick and money invested in him, McFadden in my opinion is a bust. The Raiders invested in a player with Adrian Peterson type production expectations who has yielded Harvey Williams performance.

The Raiders drafted Justin Fargas in the 3rd round, compare Huggy Bear's kid and McFadden. Numbers don't lie.

Keep digging!