2013 Free Agency and Trade Thread (News, Articles, Ideas etc)(6)

[KW93KB24]

Man, do you read my posts at all? Weather we have the receivers to do it or not has absolutely nothing to do with Christian Ponder's arm strength or talent as a player. If we were to have Ponder throw ten 50+ yard bombs to a decently talented WR, we would be lucky to get 3 receptions out of it (i.e. accurate passes that can be caught) maybe 4 tops. Its NOT something that he is good at and NOT something that should be a focal point of our offense. Trying to make him do something that he's not good at because we might be able to get someone who's awesome like Mike Wallace is not a sound idea.

Great teams are built by guys who can recognize the strengths and weaknesses of their players and figure out how to put them in situations where the team can capitalize on those strengths and marginalize the weaknesses. Clearly Christian Ponder's biggest strength as a QB is the short to intermediate pass game, the guy has the capacity to be a classic West Cost QB. Dude's bread and butter is high percentage short and medium passes, getting the WR the ball at the best possible spot where he is most likely to catch it. Ponder's intermediate game has suffered arguably more than his long game because there were plenty more passes that he could have made at the 30+ yard range that didn't get caught this year because of our bad WRs. This is the area of our passing game which should be focused on because it should yield better results, especially if we get a bigger WR who is well suited to catching contested balls. Lets put him in a situation where he can complete 6+ of those passes instead.



I'm not about to say that he's a better WR, but on this team I bet we could make better use of Brian Hartline in our offense catching these kinds of passes past 30 yards than we ever would be able to make of Mike Wallace catching bombs down the field.

So you're saying ponder's strength isn't the deep ball? How do we know that when ponder's never played with the receivers that consistently can get open deep

AND WALLACE CAN DO EVERYTHING BETTER THAN HARTLINE CAN EVER DREAM OF. WALLACE ISNT JUST A DEEP THREAT, I don't think you see that.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

So you're saying ponder's strength isn't the deep ball? How do we know that when ponder's never played with the receivers that consistently can get open deep

AND WALLACE CAN DO EVERYTHING BETTER THAN HARTLINE CAN EVER DREAM OF. WALLACE ISNT JUST A DEEP THREAT, I don't think you see that.

Do you even watch football? Ponder's receivers have nothing to do with him consistently underthrowing and being off target on deep passes. Maybe his arm strength has SOMETHING do with it, maybe. As good as he was in the Senior Bowl he was underthrowing balls there too. But no I'm wrong, Ponder has the strongest arm in the NFL since Jeff George and its a crime he's being under used. Lets base a $50+ million free agent signing on that fact and win the Super Bowl

[KW93KB24]

Do you even watch football? Ponder's receivers have nothing to do with him consistently underthrowing and being off target on deep passes has SOMETHING do with it, maybe. As good as he was in the Senior Bowl he was underthrowing balls there too. But no I'm wrong, Ponder has the strongest arm in the NFL since Jeff George and its a crime he's being under used. Lets base a $50+ million free agent signing on that fact and win the Super Bowl

Name me all the throws this year that were underthrown? What the **** are you talking about? If your receiver cant get separation and sucks ****ing dick how are you going to throw a accurate ball to them? And did i ever say that ponder has the strongest arm in the NFL? No, i just said that he can throw a 50 yard bomb accurate. But sorry cheese, i didnt agree with you therefore i'm stupid. Calm the **** down.

YOU THINK BRIAN HARTLINE CAN BE A BETTER FIT THAN MIKE WALLACE lol.
And like i said before which i dont think is getting through your brain. Mike wallace IS NOT JUST A DEEP THREAT. What part of that do you not understand?

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Some food for thought here, I'm going to post some excerpts of Ponder's scouting reports, just to keep it short

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingre...onder_greg.php

Strengths:
Short- to intermediate-area accuracy and touch


Weaknesses:
Average arm strength
Might be limited to West Coast offense

Player Comparison: Chad Pennington

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...qb-christian-p'

Negatives: "Throwing elbow must be evaluated carefully - arm strength was limited prior to the injury, and accuracy wanes down the field........... Puts a lot of arc on the ball and often underthrows deep receivers - cannot cut it loose through the wind."

Summary: "An athletic, dink-and-dunk, West Coast passer..................However, his physical limitations will always leave teams wanting more and invite injury."

http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-r...ristian-ponder

Summary

"His decision making is questionable at times, his lack of arm strength gets him in trouble from time to time, he’s thrown more interceptions than some GMs would like to see, and he’s got durability concerns to top it all off."

Arm Strength

Well he definitely isn’t going to blow you away with his arm strength, but that isn’t to say that he doesn’t have enough arm strength to get the job done. He fits throws in between defenders on crossing routes with fairly reasonable consistency. Has the arm to throw the ball deep, but sometimes allows his passes to sail when throwing the “go” route far down the field. When he has the space and time to step into his throws, his arm strength is impressive. However, when he is on the run or is forced to throw in a tight space, you can see a significant decline in the velocity of the ball when it comes off of his hand. This lack of arm strength in certain is the reason for quite a few of the interceptions he threw for the Seminoles.

Do you see a pattern yet?

As I look back on these scouting reports a lot of them are very good and accurately describe how Ponder has played for us over the past two years. I am very confident in his future here, however if Spielman and the other guys calling the shots on the team don't recognize exactly what we have (and don't have) in Ponder as a QB, they are not going to be successful at building a good team around him and taking us in the right direction, especially now that we're competitive again.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Name me all the throws this year that were underthrown? What the **** are you talking about? If your receiver cant get separation and sucks ****ing dick how are you going to throw a accurate ball to them? And did i ever say that ponder has the strongest arm in the NFL? No, i just said that he can throw a 50 yard bomb accurate. But sorry cheese, i didnt agree with you therefore i'm stupid. Calm the **** down.

YOU THINK BRIAN HARTLINE CAN BE A BETTER FIT THAN MIKE WALLACE lol.
And like i said before which i dont think is getting through your brain. Mike wallace IS NOT JUST A DEEP THREAT. What part of that do you not understand?

When did I ever say that's all Wallace can do, it isn't but its what he's best at. What he's best at doesn't match up well with what our QB is even good at. Very sorry to say it but with Ponder at QB we are not going to be able to the most out of Mike Wallace as a #1 WR, which is why we shouldn't pay him $50+ million. Its very doubtful that we will sign him in FA, its much more likely that we end up extending Harvin.

I'm not head over heels in love with Hartline, but if we get a guy like that at a decent price ($4-$5 million, probably less than half what we'd pay for Wallace) we should have enough money to get the extension done with Harvin and we can still draft a 1st round WR, these improvements are more than adequate and actually give us a momentously better group of WRs than we had last year, hopefully allowing us to have an effective passing game for the first time since 2009.

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

I guess we should fire Rick Spielman for drafting Ponder. Time to draft or trade for a QB that can throw a ball past 40 yards. Lets get Geno Smith! Screw a WR!

[100%CHEESE FREE]

I guess we should fire Rick Spielman for drafting Ponder. Time to draft or trade for a QB that can throw a ball past 40 yards. Lets get Geno Smith! Screw a WR!

No, we should just delude ourselves into thinking that Ponder can light it up deep down field and ignore the real strengths he has that make him a good QB and use him for something he's poorly suited for, that's the real path to success.

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

No, we should just delude ourselves into thinking that Ponder can light it up deep down field and ignore the real strengths he has that make him a good QB and use him for something he's poorly suited for, that's the real path to success.

Sure. Lets just settle. That's the Viking way.

No passes over 20 yards. Defenses are scared to death. That sounds like a super bowl.

If Ponder is like you keep trying to state then its time to move on.

I personally think he is capable of passing a ball down field.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Sure. Lets just settle. That's the Viking way.

No passes over 20 yards. Defenses are scared to death. That sounds like a super bowl.

If Ponder is like you keep trying to state then its time to move on.

I personally think he is capable of passing a ball down field.

I never said he was incapable of passing the ball down field at all, I said that the deep passing game is not his strength and it isn't. Does that mean he's not a good QB, no it doesn't at all. Man coverage isn't Antoine Winfield's strength, I guess he's not a good corner back. AP can't pick up a blitz so he's not a good running back.

Knowing our personnel's strengths and weaknesses and gaming for or around them is how teams are successful.

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

I never said he was incapable of passing the ball down field at all, I said that the deep passing game is not his strength and it isn't. Does that mean he's not a good QB, no it doesn't at all. Man coverage isn't Antoine Winfield's strength, I guess he's not a good corner back. AP can't pick up a blitz so he's not a good running back.

Knowing our personnel's strengths and weaknesses and gaming for or around them is how teams are successful.

I understand that players have strengths but this team would be held back if we did nothing but do what our players are perceived to do well. The NFL is about proving people wrong. If Ponder can only throw the ball under 20 yards accurately then he is a bad QB and we should be looking for an alternative. I dont think I can name one QB currently in the NFL that cant throw the ball accurately past 20 yards down the field.

[KW93KB24]

Exactly VCU!!! I completely agree with you. If christian ponder can not throw the ball past 40 yards accurately then we need to get a new qb. I really dont think we can go anywhere with throwing little 15-20 yard passes amd expect us to go far in the playoffs.

Cheese thinks that i want us to bring in wallace and throw the **** out of the ball and go deep every play lol.

[iliketurtles24]

Let me ask you guys this.... Can Christian Ponder win us a superbowl(s)? If you answered yes, then we should keep him regardless if he can excel at the long ball. If you answered no, then we are in trouble.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Exactly VCU!!! I completely agree with you. If christian ponder can not throw the ball past 40 yards accurately then we need to get a new qb. I really dont think we can go anywhere with throwing little 15-20 yard passes amd expect us to go far in the playoffs.

Cheese thinks that i want us to bring in wallace and throw the **** out of the ball and go deep every play lol.

This is turning into a classic straw man argument with neither of you listening to anything I am saying. I never once said that he can't throw past 40 yards, I said that it is not what he is good at, and he isn't. I am very sorry that you can't seem to accept that Chrisitan Ponder's arm strength is just not as good as some other QBs in the NFL, Ponder is inconsistent on deep throws. Put Wallace together with that and its exceedingly less likely that we get the return you think we're going to get on the $50 mil were going to pay him. Kind of like signing Nnamdi Asomugha and telling him to play zone (great job Eagles), or trading for Revis and moving him to free safety.

The hidden gold in Ponder's game is going to be in the intermediate passes that were +20 yards that he couldn't complete this year because of drops ect. Get better WRs (which can be had for less than $10+ million per year) should easily help in this department. We'll still be taking the odd long shot down the field with Ponder but I do not expect the consistency here to improve because so far what I have seen of him in his career, we're up against his physical limitations as a player.


Also, obviously different eras and everything, but the best QB who ever played for our team couldn't throw a ball more than 50 yards (and he knew it), I'd like to see anyone call him a bad QB.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Let me ask you guys this.... Can Christian Ponder win us a superbowl(s)? If you answered yes, then we should keep him regardless if he can excel at the long ball. If you answered no, then we are in trouble.

And that's exactly where I am. He's completed long passes and he will again. Does that mean that we should spend a boatload of money for quite possibly the most expensive free agent out there who's primary talent is going deep? Hell no.

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Mike Wallace - WR - Steelers

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette considers the Steelers and free agent Mike Wallace likely to "part ways."
It's been the consensus all along, but this is an indication the Steelers are not expected to have a change-of-heart with regards to their No. 1 receiver. Wallace is believed to have turned down a five-year extension worth roughly $50 million before signing his $2.7 million restricted free agent tender last summer. According to beat writer Ed Bouchette, Wallace's 2012 holdout "turned off" members of the Steelers' coaching staff and front office. Wallace's across-the-board statistical decline was likely the final nail in his Pittsburgh coffin.

the argument could be made that his holdout had something to do with his step back last year, however if you go back and read all the off-season reports, somebody got him a play book early on and Todd Healy and everyone said when Wallace showed up he was in great shape and he was almost up to speed with the offense.