2013 Free Agency and Trade Thread (News, Articles, Ideas etc)(6)

[VCU4LIFEGOVIKS]

I think a lot of you are stuck on the fact you think Wallace is only a deep threat. He can run all the routes from any WR spot. He is Harvin and a deep threat all rolled into one. Some of you are talking like the only time we will throw the ball to Wallace is on a deep ball. He can take slants, bubble screens, and drags as good as Harvin can.

I say sign Wallace and trade Harvin. Harvin just can't keep the S out of the box, they put the S in the box and that helps defend against the very limited bubble screen, which was pretty much his only route last year.

If you think Ponder can't get Wallace on a deep route off our play action game then you think he isn't an NFL caliber QB.

I agree with you. It's not like the guy can only run a deep route. He is a very versitile WR. People only see his highlights of catching deep balls from Big Ben and thats all they think he can do. I don't think the front office will even consider Wallace but he is a border line top 10 WR and would be an amazing addition to this team.

I also agree with your assessment of Ponder. If he can't throw a ball past 20 yards accurately then we need to be drafting a QB in round one of this years draft.

[HSmith22]

I think a lot of you are stuck on the fact you think Wallace is only a deep threat. He can run all the routes from any WR spot. He is Harvin and a deep threat all rolled into one. Some of you are talking like the only time we will throw the ball to Wallace is on a deep ball. He can take slants, bubble screens, and drags as good as Harvin can.

If you think Ponder can't get Wallace on a deep route off our play action game then you think he isn't an NFL caliber QB.

I agree with you. It's not like the guy can only run a deep route. He is a very versitile WR. People only see his highlights of catching deep balls from Big Ben and thats all they think he can do. I don't think the front office will even consider Wallace but he is a border line top 10 WR and would be an amazing addition to this team.

I also agree with your assessment of Ponder. If he can't throw a ball past 20 yards accurately then we need to be drafting a QB in round one of this years draft.

Post of the week. I agree too.

Oh yessir the team does need a down field threat but more than just a pure speed guy, but a guy kinda like Rice was for that Farve led team we had a few years back. I just think this team is on the right track and over paying for Wallace would limit how they spend in other areas of need which there are still plenty of on this roster. But when asked who fits the offense better between Harvin and Wallace that answer will always be Percy for me.

Well said sir.

I've been saying this for awhile now, working it in each of my posts about the WR prospects I've gone over. They need to find that replacement to what they lost with Sidney Rice, a physical receiver who knows how to position his body and attacks the football in the air. I believe Keenan Allen can be that guy. I think if we got him at 23 and went back and got someone like Quinton Patton (Louisiana Tech) then in the middle rounds like 3-4 we would be golden. Could use our 2nd round pick on defense, or best available between DT, MLB, S, CB, OLB. That or take a interior lineman to strengthen our strength. If Larry Warford is there he would be my choice but it's looking less and less likely that he'll fall all the way to 52. I wouldn't be opposed to see the Vikings trade a 4th and move up though. Jags used a 4th and swapped picks to move up last year to grab Blackmon. We can do the same to get Keenan Allen or move up in the 2nd to grab Warford.

[KW93KB24]

Exactly vcu, if ponder cant throw a accurate 40-50 yarder then we need a new qb

[ApolloInfinity]

100%cheesefree -I always thought that Ponder had a problem putting to much air under the long ball and they sail on him, I can only think of 1 or 2 that were underthrown.

I also thought Ponder got more comfortable in the pocket the last 4 games. That 65 yarder to Wright off the play action, he dropped back about 7-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, there was no pressure because everybody got sucked inside on the AD fake handoff. He stood back there calm and delevered the ball to Wright in stride.

The Harvin TD in ATL in the 2011 season was Ponders best throw ever. Sometimes Ponder reminds me of B. Favre, only for glimpses, the other times he reminds me of A. Smith

[ApolloInfinity]

I think some of you are worried about the salary cap if we sign Wallace. But under my plan there is no worry there.

J. Allen -17M -I don't extend because we have a successer in Griffin, he and Robison are the future ends imo.
K Williams -7M -his next contract, if he is here, won't command that much
Winfield -7M -I think he plays up to this money and more, but he will be 37 and maybe retired in 2 years.

that's 31M coming off the books in the next 2 years. Plenty of money to keep Harvin and Wallace if you want them both. But Harvin isn't in my longterm plans because I don't think he is worth the money he will command due to injury concerns. And the only reason I'm concerned about his health is because of how many hits he takes/delivers.

I'm trading Harvin for a pick that can get me T. Austin, so my WR core next year looks like this...Wallace, T. Austin, J. Hunter or Woods in rd. 2, Wright, mid rd. rookie, maybe Childs.

I just don't like the plans that have us starting to rookie's on the outside, risky to rely so heavily on rookie WR's, imo.

My draft.
23-Warmack -I can dream can't I....if he isn't there go BPA, maybe Ogletree,
29.-T. Austin, Harvin traded for this pick
2. R. Woods, Hunter won't be there
3. T. Mathieu -Winfields successor, possible S
4. Jonathan Cyprien - A S that really stood out at the Senior Bowl
5. Brad Wing P -o yeah baby a Punter, Wing had 44.1 yards per punt (50 total punts), 23 downed inside the 20-yard line, 11 downed inside the 10-yard line, 18 punts of 50+ yards and a long punt of 73 yards, in 2011
I don't know BPA the rest of the draft

If the draft goes down like this C. Johnson doesn't make the roster, I would also cut Carlson saving 5.1 M, plus cutting Jenkins 4M salary and we are looking great cap wise, saving more than 7M by cutting this dead weight.

FA. Signings
Wallace
Sammy Lee Hill
Chase Daniel
Moise Fokou MLB-a great coverage LB, his major weakness is getting off blocks but is still an okay run defender, big hitter

[100%CHEESE FREE]

100%cheesefree -I always thought that Ponder had a problem putting to much air under the long ball and they sail on him, I can only think of 1 or 2 that were underthrown.

I also thought Ponder got more comfortable in the pocket the last 4 games. That 65 yarder to Wright off the play action, he dropped back about 7-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, there was no pressure because everybody got sucked inside on the AD fake handoff. He stood back there calm and delevered the ball to Wright in stride.

The Harvin TD in ATL in the 2011 season was Ponders best throw ever. Sometimes Ponder reminds me of B. Favre, only for glimpses, the other times he reminds me of A. Smith

If you look at some of the completions that he's made long (notably the long one to Wright against Detroit) some of those balls were underthrown too and the Wright had to adjust and reach back for the ball.

Jeff Garcia and Chad Pennington (I mean before his arm literally fell off, when he had his success in New York and early Miami years) are both examples of successful NFL QBs who were not great at throwing deep. Don't get me wrong I don't believe for a second that Ponder is noodle armed and can't throw past 20 yards, I never said that, however just because he's completed passes for 60 and 70 yards (most of those the ball was airborne for) doesn't mean that he is a consistent deep passer or that we can rely on him to loft it down field , t would be a fallacy to believe this based on his body of work. That's at the very limit of what he can do, it has and will remain to be very low %.

Ponder and our passing game as a whole would be much better served by a big, tall WR who can have success going up to get the contested balls. Basically 2009 Sidney Rice like dimgim said. We need a guy like that who can bust open the intermediate passing game and get us much more consistent 30-40 yard gains. We need a fast Michael Jenkins.

I don't think that Wallace is JUST a deep pass guy, however you guys in here see to be neglecting just how versatile Percy Harvin is. Sorry but for all the good he's done this year there were more than a few times that our OC struggled and basically performed like a jack ***. Percy maybe ran 3 slants this year, and I put that on Musgrave and his conservatism. There are limits on what we can use him for (his strength isn`t playing outside) but just because Musgrave isn`t creative and ran screen passes over and over again doesn`t mean that we should pidgeon-hole what we think Harvin can do as a WR.

Neither Wallace nor Austin can do everything that Percy can. AP adjusted his game and became a lot more patient after his injury (and as he matured as a player, got over that fumbling problem) there is no reason that Percy can`t or isn`t capable of doing the same. Ultimately I do think that Ponder can have more success than he has had so far throwing deep passes, however going out and getting someone (and paying a bundle for him too) who`s primary strength is out running DBs to catch the ball deep doesn`t fit with the QB that we have who again is very marginal in this area. I won`t say that signing Wallace would be a horrible waste (obviously a better WR than we have on the team right now), I just don`t think it would work out nearly as well as some of you think, vs signing a big guy like Bowe.

[TearsOfPurple]

100%cheesefree -I always thought that Ponder had a problem putting to much air under the long ball and they sail on him, I can only think of 1 or 2 that were underthrown.

I also thought Ponder got more comfortable in the pocket the last 4 games. That 65 yarder to Wright off the play action, he dropped back about 7-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, there was no pressure because everybody got sucked inside on the AD fake handoff. He stood back there calm and delevered the ball to Wright in stride.

The Harvin TD in ATL in the 2011 season was Ponders best throw ever. Sometimes Ponder reminds me of B. Favre, only for glimpses, the other times he reminds me of A. Smith

Perfect assesment in a nutshell right there. That's why I think Musgrave is holding us back by trying to pin him into the "A. Smith role" instead of Ponder's own role not based on any other QB.

[ApolloInfinity]

I having trouble remembering a lot of Ponders deep throw because there wasn't a whole lot of them. Thinking about it more I remember taking a lot of deep shots with Harvin in the preseason. Harvin got open and completed a few, and Ponder under threw him a few times to...Why did we go away from that? Maybe my problem is with Musgrave and not with Harvin. I never doubted Harvisn versatility until Musgrave got here, and truth be told Bevel didn't know what to do with him either. But if Harvin can just play the slot and take 3 handoffs a game then he's not very versitle. I'm so conflicted on Harvin, why can't he play on the outside? Because he doesn't run good routes? I just don't know what to think sometimes.

Another thing about Harvin is what kind of money is he going to command. Because I think we'd have trouble signing him for under 8M a season. That contract would tell me we are paying for his potential rather then what he's done. He hasn't caught 100 passes, he hasn't gone for over 1000 rec yards, he hasn't caught more then 6 TD's in a season, although he had 8, 7, 9 and 5TD's in his career.

I like Harvin, but I think he's as much of a risk to pay as Rice was...and I think we made the right move in not paying Rice.

[vikingsfan0845]

I'm still not sold on Wallace. I live right outside of Pittsburgh so I live in Steeler country so I've seen all the games. Personally I don't even think he's the best wide receiver on the Steelers, I think Antonio Brown is better. Drops were a concern with Wallace last season and he even admitted he has trouble focusing at times during a game. Drops weren't a problem until last season but him admitting he problems focusing during games worries me. That along with his price tag makes me want to stay away from him.

[jojo30]

So i havent gotten into much of the FA/Draft stuff this year. Been way to busy at work. Can someone break down who is available for "Second and Third Tier" WR in FA? I think that us signing a second or third tier guy and then drafting a first round WR is more likely then us signing a big name FA. Which i think is the smart thing to do.

[vikingsfan0845]

So i havent gotten into much of the FA/Draft stuff this year. Been way to busy at work. Can someone break down who is available for "Second and Third Tier" WR in FA? I think that us signing a second or third tier guy and then drafting a first round WR is more likely then us signing a big name FA. Which i think is the smart thing to do.

Brian Hartline has been thrown around the most, as well as Darius Heyward-Bey, Ramses Barden, and Brandon Gibson.

[ApolloInfinity]

I have a name to add to the FA WR watch list....some of you said you wanted more of a big bodied WR in the Jenkins mold, but one that can run....

What about David Nelson...He is 6'5, 217 and 26 years old. He was hurt last year but in 2011 he caught 61 of 98 targets (62%), for 658 yards and 5 TD's.

He's not a stud but would be a cheap upgrade, I really want us to bring this guy in..

[100%CHEESE FREE]

Brian Hartline has been thrown around the most, as well as Darius Heyward-Bey, Ramses Barden, and Brandon Gibson.

Yeah, its a pretty steep drop off from the cream of the crop to these guys. After this you're looking at guys coming off of injuries and guys who are primarily return specialists like Ted Ginn (and to a point you have to worry about taking one of them later since usually by the time they hit FA they have a few years on them).

[100%CHEESE FREE]

I have a name to add to the FA WR watch list....some of you said you wanted more of a big bodied WR in the Jenkins mold, but one that can run....

What about David Nelson...He is 6'5, 217 and 26 years old. He was hurt last year but in 2011 he caught 61 of 98 targets (62%), for 658 yards and 5 TD's.

He's not a stud but would be a cheap upgrade, I really want us to bring this guy in..

Could be worth some though, plus he'd almost certainly be less than Jenkins' option. I have a feeling though that Jenkins is just itching to take another pay cut so he can stay in the NFL. Half of $2 million is still better than nothing.

[ApolloInfinity]

I'm fine with Jenkins taking a pay cut to stay on the team, I'd be fine with both. Jenkins has good hands and had some big 3rd down grabs in our playoff push. He is also a good blocker and a good Vet. leader to younger WR's.