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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimgim View Post
    Why do ya'll keep using two pass plays from Ponder to validate he is a deep thrower, that is not his game it wasnt at Florida St it damn sure aint now. He is at his best running a west coast quick hitting offense. What your missing is physically yes he can make the throw (damn well should like any QB in the NFL) but Ponder does have happy feet and isnt a guy that likes to stand in there and wait for that deep route to develop. This is the point so Harvin skill set does fit better than Wallace.
    Yep, he can make any throw, that doesn't mean its a good idea to consistently put him in a situation where we're relying on the vertical pass game to move us deep down field. Ponder isn't the 98 pound-weakling that a lot of guys make him out to be, however if we want to be smart our offense has got to play to his strengths, throwing deep isn't one of them and probably never will be.

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  2. #272
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    Wow Harvin, Wallace, and Kyle R would be unstoppable. How do you stop that. You have to double cover atleast two of the three. The whole NFL will notice after this Pro-Bowl that a New TE has arrived in Kyle and look for him to be covered single covered until the 3rd game of the season and then he will be one of our Weapons that cant be left not double covered. Now that leaves Harvin who is already doubled to some extent the majority of the plays, so dont be surprised if we go all in and Lock up Harvin spending the rest on a Big Name WR and then addressing everything else for the next couple of years through the draft. Nobody here can argue that Wallace, Harvin, Wright, and Kyle wouldn't make the most explosive unit in Football. Yea our WRs would be a smaller WR corp but you are telling me that you would't want 3 Harvins lined up at the same time. The only disagreement is can we afford him, and Im saying dont be surprised if Zigy says he wants to make some noise this offseason, after having some huge faith in our Drafting abilities.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by KW93KB24 View Post
    This is a reply to mauer So ur saying we should upgrade on D? Well who in free agency is there that is gonna make our D a whole lot better? We need offense. Mike wallace will give us instant offense. Look at these playoffs, all these teams have been putting up 28+ points even on some good D's.

    A lot of the time when our D was getting whooped is because our offense couldnt sustain drives and were three and outs!!
    What I was trying to say is that there is no reason to lock up that much money on the offensive side of the ball when we have people to pay on defense. Look at what happened to New Orleans, they end up with this unstoppable offense but since they locked up their money on that side of the ball their defense slowly fell apart.

    I guess if I were a GM I would be more interested in creating a balanced team where both offense and defense could win you a game any given Sunday. Don't get me wrong I am a huge supporter of Mike Wallace, but I would rather resign Harvin than dish out 10 million to a guy who has never taken a snap in our offense.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coenthar View Post
    Wow Harvin, Wallace, and Kyle R would be unstoppable. How do you stop that. You have to double cover atleast two of the three. The whole NFL will notice after this Pro-Bowl that a New TE has arrived in Kyle and look for him to be covered single covered until the 3rd game of the season and then he will be one of our Weapons that cant be left not double covered. Now that leaves Harvin who is already doubled to some extent the majority of the plays, so dont be surprised if we go all in and Lock up Harvin spending the rest on a Big Name WR and then addressing everything else for the next couple of years through the draft. Nobody here can argue that Wallace, Harvin, Wright, and Kyle wouldn't make the most explosive unit in Football. Yea our WRs would be a smaller WR corp but you are telling me that you would't want 3 Harvins lined up at the same time. The only disagreement is can we afford him, and Im saying dont be surprised if Zigy says he wants to make some noise this offseason, after having some huge faith in our Drafting abilities.
    In my opinion this is the exact reason we don't need to go out and grab Wallace. Save the cap space for our own players when their rookie contracts expire. Making a splash now = not being able to resign someone like a Harrison Smith, Matt Kalil, or Everson Griffen down the road.

  5. #275
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    Kalil, and Smith are rookies so we will have time to get them but my hopeful route would have us locking up Harvin, whom is "Our Guy" and Wallace who isn't a bad option to have locked up for a couple of years. We dont NEED to go 100% Packers, STEELERS, AND COLTS and only keep our drafted guys and hope a whole team sticks in 2 to 3 years. We can have "Need" gap players,,,we did in 09 and in 98 and I thought it worked out for us those years. And there are still very little amount of the Draft our guys only teams that win the superbowl. I honestly dont care what route we take but Wallace a Vikings isn't a bad idea at all.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100%CHEESE FREE View Post
    Yep, he can make any throw, that doesn't mean its a good idea to consistently put him in a situation where we're relying on the vertical pass game to move us deep down field. Ponder isn't the 98 pound-weakling that a lot of guys make him out to be, however if we want to be smart our offense has got to play to his strengths, throwing deep isn't one of them and probably never will be.
    Valid points here. exactly why i would rather have a big posession type receiver that runs good routes and has good hands that can actually get open. If were looking for a straight "burner" type WR to just run deep routes then why not use Simpson or Wright for that job? would be way cheaper. I think Jarius proved he can get open down field. Now lets get one big bodied receiver to put outside.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimgim View Post
    Why do ya'll keep using two pass plays from Ponder to validate he is a deep thrower, that is not his game it wasnt at Florida St it damn sure aint now. He is at his best running a west coast quick hitting offense. What your missing is physically yes he can make the throw (damn well should like any QB in the NFL) but Ponder does have happy feet and isnt a guy that likes to stand in there and wait for that deep route to develop. This is the point so Harvin skill set does fit better than Wallace.
    While I agree on your assessment of Ponder I think you still gotta have a deep threat, regardless of if your QB fits that type of deep thrower role or not. I think Harvin would have more impact on our team and they should do everything to extend/resign him to keep him here but they also need to find their own version of Mike Wallace. A guy who can be a vertical threat and go deep on defenses. Jerome Simpson is not it.
    Last edited by HSmith22; 01-31-2013 at 02:24 PM.


  8. #278
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    Wallace as a Viking is a bad idea. Sure it sounds good in Madden and heck I would probably do that in Madden but he does not fit our scheme at all. Our strength is not throwing the deep ball and that is what Wallace excels at. A lot of adlib plays from Big Ben as well. I would rather us resign Harvin and sign a good 2nd tier guy like Hartline then draft another WR. I would be very satisfied with that.

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  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauer.400 View Post
    What I was trying to say is that there is no reason to lock up that much money on the offensive side of the ball when we have people to pay on defense. Look at what happened to New Orleans, they end up with this unstoppable offense but since they locked up their money on that side of the ball their defense slowly fell apart.

    I guess if I were a GM I would be more interested in creating a balanced team where both offense and defense could win you a game any given Sunday. Don't get me wrong I am a huge supporter of Mike Wallace, but I would rather resign Harvin than dish out 10 million to a guy who has never taken a snap in our offense.
    I totally agree with everything you just said. As much as I would love to have all those guys line up together as a viking next year I don't think it's gonna happen. Our GM is more about a balanced team. He proved that by the way he drafted last year taking Kalil 1st and then trading back into the 1st round to get Smith. He wants this team to be great on both sides of the ball. Signing Wallace would be nice but where we are at in the draft we can get someone like Patterson/Allen that would be a lot cheaper and would fit in our system. Spielman showed last year in the draft that he can get good WR's. Wallace would be a nice addition to the team but not at the expense of not getting people to contribute on defense.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSmith22 View Post
    While I agree on your assessment of Ponder I think you still gotta have a deep threat, regardless of if your QB fits that type of deep thrower role or not. I think Harvin would have more impact on our team and they should do everything to extend/resign him to keep him here but they also need to find their own version of Mike Wallace. A guy who can be a vertical threat and go deep on defenses. Jerome Simpson is not it.
    Oh yessir the team does need a down field threat but more than just a pure speed guy, but a guy kinda like Rice was for that Farve led team we had a few years back. I just think this team is on the right track and over paying for Wallace would limit how they spend in other areas of need which there are still plenty of on this roster. But when asked who fits the offense better between Harvin and Wallace that answer will always be Percy for me.
    Last edited by dimgim; 01-31-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  11. #281
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    why do u guys keep saying ponder cant throw it deep or it's not his strength? What the ****?

    How many of you guys actually watched christian ponder consistently at florida state like viking games? I would bet pretty heavily that none of you guys did including me.

    Name a receiver that ponder's played with that was a legit deep threat that can consistently beat receivers? If you say jerome simpson then you should be banned lol.
    so when we dont have a receiver that cant get open deep then why the **** would we try to gameplan and call deep plays? It doesnt make sense. If our receivers are short/intermediate guys then we're gonna throw short/intermediate plays. That doesn't mean ponder cant throw it deep or mike wallace doesnt fit our scheme. Because we don't have the players.

    It's like saying adrian peterson wouldn't fit the packers because they dont run the ball so he doesnt fit the scheme. Lol

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by KW93KB24 View Post
    why do u guys keep saying ponder cant throw it deep or it's not his strength? What the ****?

    How many of you guys actually watched christian ponder consistently at florida state like viking games? I would bet pretty heavily that none of you guys did including me.

    Name a receiver that ponder's played with that was a legit deep threat that can consistently beat receivers? If you say jerome simpson then you should be banned lol.
    so when we dont have a receiver that cant get open deep then why the **** would we try to gameplan and call deep plays? It doesnt make sense. If our receivers are short/intermediate guys then we're gonna throw short/intermediate plays. That doesn't mean ponder cant throw it deep or mike wallace doesnt fit our scheme. Because we don't have the players.

    It's like saying adrian peterson wouldn't fit the packers because they dont run the ball so he doesnt fit the scheme. Lol
    Because it isn't. For the maybe 3 or 4 passes Ponder has completed deep in his NFL career there are many more passes where he's underthrown the ball (again due to his arm strength) or been inaccurate (remember how angry everybody got when he missed AP deep down the field against the Packers the first time we played them this year). Our group of WRs was a poor excuse, but getting better ones doesn't mean that its going to make our QBs arm any stronger. I fully agree that Ponder's arm is better than a lot of naysayers give him credit for, however that doesn't mean it would be a smart decision to suddenly start featuring him in a low % deep passing game, because those percentages are going to be even lower for Ponder.

    Ponder's going to make his money in the short and intermediate west coast passing game. This year, with better WRs, its going to be time to focus on expanding the intermediate and not featuring so much of the short (which gets predictable, easy to defend, and marginalizes what AP can do since they can stack the box).

    No matter how you cut it, I believe that if we were to sign a guy like Wallace and try to use him as a deep threat we're not going to get the results that a lot of you think, Ponder is going to be trying to deliver the ball deep, right at the limit of where he can throw and he's going to have problems doing that consistently because he's pushing the envelope. As a result we'd see more incomplete passes and more INTs.

    Thinking that we can use him effectively in a deep passing game like that makes about as much sense as going out and signing Byron Leftwich (who throws a great deep ball) and expecting him to be proficient in our short-intermediate precision passing WCO. Neither ideas are sound and neither of them will work well because neither of them play to the strengths of the respective Quarterbacks.

    Vikings Roster thread
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    WE TRUST V4LB!!! HE IS THE GREATEST GUY IN OUR FOURM.
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    HE GETS ALL THE WOMEN!!!!
    HE IS NEVER WRONG!!!
    WE TRIED TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR PRESIDENT BUT HE IS SO GREAT THAT HE WOULDNT RUN FOR OFFICE

  13. #283
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    I think a lot of you are stuck on the fact you think Wallace is only a deep threat. He can run all the routes from any WR spot. He is Harvin and a deep threat all rolled into one. Some of you are talking like the only time we will throw the ball to Wallace is on a deep ball. He can take slants, bubble screens, and drags as good as Harvin can.

    I say sign Wallace and trade Harvin. Harvin just can't keep the S out of the box, they put the S in the box and that helps defend against the very limited bubble screen, which was pretty much his only route last year.

    If you think Ponder can't get Wallace on a deep route off our play action game then you think he isn't an NFL caliber QB.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100%CHEESE FREE View Post
    Because it isn't. For the maybe 3 or 4 passes Ponder has completed deep in his NFL career there are many more passes where he's underthrown the ball (again due to his arm strength) or been inaccurate (remember how angry everybody got when he missed AP deep down the field against the Packers the first time we played them this year). Our group of WRs was a poor excuse, but getting better ones doesn't mean that its going to make our QBs arm any stronger. I fully agree that Ponder's arm is better than a lot of naysayers give him credit for, however that doesn't mean it would be a smart decision to suddenly start featuring him in a low % deep passing game, because those percentages are going to be even lower for Ponder.

    Ponder's going to make his money in the short and intermediate west coast passing game. This year, with better WRs, its going to be time to focus on expanding the intermediate and not featuring so much of the short (which gets predictable, easy to defend, and marginalizes what AP can do since they can stack the box).

    No matter how you cut it, I believe that if we were to sign a guy like Wallace and try to use him as a deep threat we're not going to get the results that a lot of you think, Ponder is going to be trying to deliver the ball deep, right at the limit of where he can throw and he's going to have problems doing that consistently because he's pushing the envelope. As a result we'd see more incomplete passes and more INTs.

    Thinking that we can use him effectively in a deep passing game like that makes about as much sense as going out and signing Byron Leftwich (who throws a great deep ball) and expecting him to be proficient in our short-intermediate precision passing WCO. Neither ideas are sound and neither of them will work well because neither of them play to the strengths of the respective Quarterbacks.

    How many of those underthrown balls thar ponder threw were the receiver actually open on? Yeah the ap one, but it's HARD to throw it accurately deep when u have ****** receivers!!! For gods sake that doesnt mean he cant accurately throw it deep. We just dont have the players.

    name me how many times the guy underthrown a OPEN receiver that was down field?

    You guys know that scouts said aaron rodger doesn't have strong arm coming out of cal

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloInfinity View Post
    I think a lot of you are stuck on the fact you think Wallace is only a deep threat. He can run all the routes from any WR spot. He is Harvin and a deep threat all rolled into one. Some of you are talking like the only time we will throw the ball to Wallace is on a deep ball. He can take slants, bubble screens, and drags as good as Harvin can.

    I say sign Wallace and trade Harvin. Harvin just can't keep the S out of the box, they put the S in the box and that helps defend against the very limited bubble screen, which was pretty much his only route last year.

    If you think Ponder can't get Wallace on a deep route off our play action game then you think he isn't an NFL caliber QB.

    Dude, you literally hit the nail in the coffin, i completely agree with this!

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