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View Poll Results: who is currently the over all better player.

Voters
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  • CALDERON

    15 28.85%
  • LOWRY

    33 63.46%
  • after weighing pro's and con's I find them to be equal.

    4 7.69%
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Results 46 to 60 of 185
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucketss View Post
    lowry is only 26 and imo definitely isn't a backup level pg hes a top ten 10 pg maybe not now since he injuries but top ten easily when healthy.
    I just haven't seen much that justifies the pick we gave up. Very ordinary play IMO.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I have no issue at with you caring. My problem is that IMO we wasted an asset on the wrong PG. It's early and I'm happy to be wrong (it happens all the time ) but so far Lowry has not been worth the pick we've given up.
    ink you said "I don't expect a lot of D out of a PG but that puts pressure on the big men, who have to be rock solid. You can't have a weak defensive PG and a stretch 4 as we've found out."

    calderon gets to play with ed davis and amir johnson for reasons you just stated. . while lowry started out the season in a line up with bargs & jonas. then he got injured and came back to very limited playing time.

    is that really a fair chance ?? thats a short leash if you ask me. a small sample size of games with bargs and jonas in the starting line up? a guy who cant rebound and is a poor defender and a rookie learning the ropes ?

    how can we come to the conclusion that we wasted our pick on lowry if he really isnt getting a fair chance to prove he can be a solid starter for us ?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I just haven't seen much that justifies the pick we gave up. Very ordinary play IMO.
    -he started out on fire in the season. that is not ordinary play.

    -because he was new to the system and new to his team mates and coach that play didnt translate to wins right away.

    -we still havent seen lowry, davis, and johnson in the same line up for extensive periods of time. it is pretty evedent now that davis and johnson are both superior players to bargs. why not have the most talented players play together for the majority of the game ? why not even try it ?

    -even in limited mins he has been very productive, again he played 17 mins last game and still came away with 2 pts, 4 assits, 2 rebounds, 1 steal which contributed to a win.

    he should def be playing more and should def be given more of a chance. bayless, jack, and ford all got more of a chance to show what they could do as starters. why not lowry ?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    why is lowry a coaches night mare ? thats a strong statement. id like to know what makes you think that about him.
    he's sort of the opposite of Jose. he improvises and does things his own way whereas jose is an extension of the coach, executing the gameplan methodically.

    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Also why cant jose consistently perfrom this way so that we dont try to find a replacement in the offseason and waste a pick on lowry??
    i don't really think Jose's play changes much from year to year, month to month.

    he has a glaring weakness defensively and it gets exploited by certain types of players regardless of how he does his job.

    the other belief i have is that Jose has a very methodical style and does a great job of getting the ball into the hands of the right offensive player in the right position to score. obviously he has fewer weapons to choose from when he's on the bench, thus he has to scramble or over-dribble more. not his strengths. maybe that leads people to feel like he is always better when he takes over as the starter? i don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    if jose is the answer why keep trying to replace him and wasting assets in doing so ? this is what bothers me most.
    i can't answer most of that because personally i've always thought the Raptors had an excellent point in Jose. it seems like the Raptors always become bored of Jose's safe play and then realize soon after how much they take it for granted.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #50
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    Stat and PER aside , I think Lowry has an edge in his game, he has that swagger that this team is lacking. With him on the court, I don't think the Garnett of the world can just play on the Raps home court and say some smack and talk down on some of the Raps players. We had Magloire last season but offensively, he was not that player anymore.

    Casey started to changed the culture of this team but we need players like Lowry who has the nastiness and chip on their shoulder to continue the team's conversion on the court.

    I like the NY model right now because aside from the Woodson defensive philosophy, there are players like Chandler/ JR Smith/ Camby and Sheed that can be useful come playoff time. Although Garnett still was successful in playing his mind games the other night.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    Stat and PER aside , I think Lowry has an edge in his game, he has that swagger that this team is lacking. With him on the court, I don't think the Garnett of the world can just play on the Raps home court and say some smack and talk down on some of the Raps players. We had Magloire last season but offensively, he was not that player anymore.

    Casey started to changed the culture of this team but we need players like Lowry who has the nastiness and chip on their shoulder to continue the team's conversion on the court.

    I like the NY model right now because aside from the Woodson defensive philosophy, there are players like Chandler/ JR Smith/ Camby and Sheed that can be useful come playoff time. Although Garnett still was successful in playing his mind games the other night.
    You know that Casey is choosing Jose over Lowry most of the time right?

  7. #52
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    ink what about the current available point guards? because i dont see anyone better than Lowry at this moment

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    he's sort of the opposite of Jose. he improvises and does things his own way whereas jose is an extension of the coach, executing the gameplan methodically.
    does that really make lowry a coaches nighmare ? if your preference is calderons playing style i can understand that. but to state that lowry is a coaches night mare based on that preference is a reach to say the least. there are plenty of succesfull pg's who aproach the game different then calderon such as rose, westy, parker, etc. not saying lowry is on their level but i am saying he is just as much of a productive player as calderon is. its about how we use these guys and their playing style.

    i kinda liked having both and having that contrast in playing styles. if only we can split the mins more fairly it might have enven worked. or still can.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i don't really think Jose's play changes much from year to year, month to month.

    he has a glaring weakness defensively and it gets exploited by certain types of players regardless of how he does his job.

    the other belief i have is that Jose has a very methodical style and does a great job of getting the ball into the hands of the right offensive player in the right position to score. obviously he has fewer weapons to choose from when he's on the bench, thus he has to scramble or over-dribble more. not his strengths. maybe that leads people to feel like he is always better when he takes over as the starter? i don't know.
    agreed. calderon play doesnt change much from year to year. his mins do and the number will reflect that. but it seems to me that for some reason or another our managment is never content with him and always tries to upgrade but when that other guy comes in calderon has another gear he goes in too. like it motivates him or something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i can't answer most of that because personally i've always thought the Raptors had an excellent point in Jose. it seems like the Raptors always become bored of Jose's safe play and then realize soon after how much they take it for granted.
    and it drives me nuts to think that we just give away assets and money for no reason. we could use those assets and money to improve in other areas. urgffhff.

  9. #54
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    Whats better.

    A Mercedes or a Mustang?

    Yep you name it apples and oranges.

    They can drive you from point A to Point B.

    THey have Strenghts and Weakeness.

    But you cant really compare them because the concept is completley different.
    ]

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    this is very frustraiting for me ... to see assets go and watch talent get burried.

    we could have kept the assets and just stuck with calderon in the first place and saved money on a cheaper back up pg like bayless.
    Or we could have gone with a cheaper option as the starter, like Bayless.

    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I'm coming around to this given the failures of trying to improve this position for so long. I think BC was spoiled by flashy types like Marbury, Kidd, and Nash, and that changed his thinking about the importance of the position. Also, the league has swung heavily toward PGs as dominant players. Frankly, I'd like to see more attack and defence out of the other 4 positions. That's one of the reasons why I've never had a problem with Jose. I think our problems have also been elsewhere on the roster, especially at the 3 and with our bigs.
    I think most of the Raps problems are elsewhere also but I think a pg like Jose compounds the problems in the other areas.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Or we could have gone with a cheaper option as the starter, like Bayless.

    I think most of the Raps problems are elsewhere also but I think a pg like Jose compounds the problems in the other areas.
    Who is in his FOURTH team and cant get to start?

    Time to get the Memo.

    BAYLESS HAS NEVER BEEN THAT GOOD
    ]

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    Who is in his FOURTH team and cant get to start?

    Time to get the Memo.

    BAYLESS HAS NEVER BEEN THAT GOOD
    There are a lot of reasons a player may or may not get a chance and a lot of it has little to do with talent. Time to get the memo, if you want a good team the pg is one of the last things to worry about. If Bayless was starting on this team they really wouldn't be any worse then they are with either Lowry or Calderon.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    You know that Casey is choosing Jose over Lowry most of the time right?
    they're usually both out there during close games lowry has been working his way back from injury as well i wouldn't say he is choosing calderon over lowry most of the time.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucketss View Post
    they're usually both out there during close games lowry has been working his way back from injury as well i wouldn't say he is choosing calderon over lowry most of the time.
    Fair enough, I'll watch closer next game.... But my perception right now is Casey tries and finds minutes for Lowry... If he could, he'd play Jose 48 minutes. But as I say, I'll watch next game

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    Whats better.

    A Mercedes or a Mustang?

    Yep you name it apples and oranges.

    They can drive you from point A to Point B.

    THey have Strenghts and Weakeness.

    But you cant really compare them because the concept is completley different.
    Mercedes is a make of a vehicle. a mustang is a model of a vehicle. Mustang is made by ford. But we're not comparing apples or oranges here were comparing pg to pg.

    I think Lowry is better because he plays both ends of the floor can score in various ways and is a decent facilitator where as Calderon is simply a great facilitator. Calderon can also score but he is almost unselfish to a fault passing up on great looks when he is open. I like Calderon for his mentality as well but in terms of overall skill I'd take Lowry.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 01-11-2013 at 01:23 AM.

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