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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BALLER R View Post
    Not to mention there's a reason he only played 17 mins.
    Exactly. I don't think anyone is judging his talent or skills. We are judging his selflessness. The team is just striving under Jose's leadership.

  2. #32
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    When Ed davis is outplaying Bargnani but Bargnani gets more minutes It doesn't make sense.

    When Ross is playing well but guys who weren't were getting more minutes than him it didn't make sense.

    But when calderon is outplaying Lowry, But you want Lowry to play because he's Lowry. That just doesn't make sense.

    Puzzles me what some fans really want. Individual success or team success. Might I add that there will be and they are night when Lowry is in the game more than Calderon because at that time he's playing better. I always believe in going with the hot hand not the status of the player.(Unless that player is a superstar)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjt20mik View Post
    Exactly. I don't think anyone is judging his talent or skills. We are judging his selflessness. The team is just striving under Jose's leadership.
    striving because of an easy stretch of the schedule.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjt20mik View Post
    This is frustrating to read. If you were a true fan of the game, you wouldn't look at the minutes the person got, rather the result. Lowry is one of our best players, and only got 17 minutes last night. However, the TEAM won. .
    I'm going to tell a little story. As an OKC fan, it was disturbing to watch Jeff Green and his poor defense play against so many bigger opponents. Everyone knew Serge Ibaka was a good defensive player but Scott Brooks wouldn't give him more minutes. We were winning games with green so no one was looking to make a change.

    Then he eventually got more minutes because Green was traded. Ibaka blossomed into a very good player. But still, Scott Brooks wouldn't give him starters minutes.

    However, his increased playing time made us a much better post defense team as well as catapulted us into the contender tier.

    This year, with full-on starters minutes, Ibaka is at 15/8/3 blocks and 57% fg. He is a huge reason that missing harden hasn't effected it us that much.

    Lesson: play the better player even if you are winning games with the other player. It is better in the long run for the team.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BALLER R View Post
    When Ed davis is outplaying Bargnani but Bargnani gets more minutes It doesn't make sense.

    Davis should have had more playing time the past two years, I agree.

    When Ross is playing well but guys who weren't were getting more minutes than him it didn't make sense

    Ross should play over Fields, Pietrus and anderson, I agree.

    But when calderon is outplaying Lowry, But you want Lowry to play because he's Lowry. That just doesn't make sense.

    Lowry should play over Calderon as well.

    Puzzles me what some fans really want. Individual success or team success. Might I add that there will be and they are night when Lowry is in the game more than Calderon because at that time he's playing better. I always believe in going with the hot hand not the status of the player.(Unless that player is a superstar)
    ^

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucketss View Post
    striving because of an easy stretch of the schedule.
    Do you change something that is going well? If you find something that is working (no matter the schedule) do you change it?

    Again if we end up getting destroyed in the next couple of games, and you can see that Jose's play is a fault, then I have no problem is letting Lowry start. At this point, the team is winning with Jose, so I'll ride that.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjt20mik View Post
    Do you change something that is going well? If you find something that is working (no matter the schedule) do you change it?

    Again if we end up getting destroyed in the next couple of games, and you can see that Jose's play is a fault, then I have no problem is letting Lowry start. At this point, the team is winning with Jose, so I'll ride that.
    This. Not to mention Jose actually played decent defense yesterday.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by poleandreel View Post
    I'm going to tell a little story. As an OKC fan, it was disturbing to watch Jeff Green and his poor defense play against so many bigger opponents. Everyone knew Serge Ibaka was a good defensive player but Scott Brooks wouldn't give him more minutes. We were winning games with green so no one was looking to make a change.

    Then he eventually got more minutes because Green was traded. Ibaka blossomed into a very good player. But still, Scott Brooks wouldn't give him starters minutes.

    However, his increased playing time made us a much better post defense team as well as catapulted us into the contender tier.

    This year, with full-on starters minutes, Ibaka is at 15/8/3 blocks and 57% fg. He is a huge reason that missing harden hasn't effected it us that much.

    Lesson: play the better player even if you are winning games with the other player. It is better in the long run for the team.
    You're comparing different situations. I wish this could be the case with the Raptors, but the fact is we are not fortunate enough to have a superstar, all-star, emerging 6th man of the year on our team. I understand your point, however, our team has to take everything it can get. Wins are not easy to come by for this squad.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjt20mik View Post
    Do you change something that is going well? If you find something that is working (no matter the schedule) do you change it?

    Again if we end up getting destroyed in the next couple of games, and you can see that Jose's play is a fault, then I have no problem is letting Lowry start. At this point, the team is winning with Jose, so I'll ride that.
    question: if calderon is so good at getting this bad team involved and the offense going, why is he absolutely atrocious off the bench? is it because he really isn't that good or is it just a coincidence?

  10. #40
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    I like Lowry but I want to explain a big difference between Curry and Lowry. Curry has been a good teammate while Lowry has had clashed with coaches and shown some immaturity. He needs to get more mature and not let his emotions run wild like he sometimes does.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by poleandreel View Post
    question: if calderon is so good at getting this bad team involved and the offense going, why is he absolutely atrocious off the bench? is it because he really isn't that good or is it just a coincidence?
    for starters, i don't think he's ever been bad off the bench, much less atrocious.

    second, this is a player whose strength is utilizing his teammates. a tougher task when your teammates are inferior like they usually are on the second unit.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 01-10-2013 at 11:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by poleandreel View Post
    A dupe with 1000 posts? With a join date 4 years ago? No, I am a lowry fan and it pains me when he gets a ****** rep because fans are delusional and can't make coherent arguments for themselves.

    The grizzlies didn't give up on him. They drafted conley 3rd overall a few years ago and were not going to give up on him

    The rockets didnt give up on lowry either. They tried desperately to free cap space and stockpile picks to get dwight or any superstar.

    Yes, Lowry is not a superstar but he is a very very good player with more talent than most players. And you guys are failing to see that. I fully expect BC to trade **** calderon to a contender (where he will be a reserve) and make idiot casey start Lowry finally.

    17 minutes for lowry? is that a ****ing joke. Hasheem thabeet and reggie jackson get more than that on OKC.
    Dude, you come into the Raps forum and tell us that our team sucks no matter who starts at the point, then expect us to have a nice calm rational discussion with you? Get over yourself man. This team is finding itself right now, the pg situation will shake out how it may. I like both guys and all I care about is the team improving in the near future. Jose is truly underrated year in and year out, and Lowry is great but never seems to be able to take the reigns when he's being challenged for the starting spot. Is there a stat for that?


    "Juuuuuuuuuuuuust a bit outside. Wild Thing tried for the corner and missed."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Mund View Post
    Dude, you come into the Raps forum and tell us that our team sucks no matter who starts at the point, then expect us to have a nice calm rational discussion with you? Get over yourself man. This team is finding itself right now, the pg situation will shake out how it may. I like both guys and all I care about is the team improving in the near future. Jose is truly underrated year in and year out, and Lowry is great but never seems to be able to take the reigns when he's being challenged for the starting spot. Is there a stat for that?
    Completely false. On numerous occasions in the game threads in other threads I try to prove a point using stats from everything possible. including SOS and injuries to other players and continually get **** on from posters who use no stats and no substantial claims whatsoever.

    I have not met a raptors fan on here who can coherently argue the Calderon point besides "Do you watch the games, they play better with him and lowry has an attitude problem."

    Baseless arguments with no proof. I'm done. And yes, I have watched every Raptors game this year so their arguments are futile.

  14. #44
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    individual stats doesn't mean the team wins.

  15. #45
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    What is this thread about? Are you comparing Lowry to Curry? Or are you arguing that we keep him instead of Jose?

    S E A N....M A Y N E

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