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Thread: Enter-Sandy-Man

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    [/B][/B]

    Duda is horrible though.


    We say this every year, every team just about is saying that.
    I don't like Duda, but if he can hit closer to his 2011 form, he'll be useful and his D is not as abysmal in LF compared to RF(though still very bad)

    If our rotation is healthy and our pen is better and more consistent, we'll be decent. Big if, but it can be done.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well of course the assumption will be it's someone close in rank and relationship to Bud but i still get the impression if this continues with the Mets, baseball will only be able to look away for so long (no matter who is running it).

    I know that's a different point and you have different feelings on the subject of the Wilpons and their existing ownership but if the Wilpons continue to have these perceived financial issues something will come to a head either be it by baseball or otherwise.
    Why should the Mets be held to a different standard than other teams? What about the Marlins? The Pirates? Etc? I don't think you can have one set of rules for one team and another set for other teams. What exactly are "the rules" upon which a commissioner could force the Mets to sell? I think ownership has to maintain specific debt/income ratios. I don't know what other "rules" apply.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I don't like Duda, but if he can hit closer to his 2011 form, he'll be useful and his D is not as abysmal in LF compared to RF(though still very bad)

    If our rotation is healthy and our pen is better and more consistent, we'll be decent. Big if, but it can be done.


    The team is worse than it was this time last year. But we'll see, I don't think people are realizing just how much we're going to miss RA every 5 days or how much we were flattered by the 1st half.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Why should the Mets be held to a different standard than other teams? What about the Marlins? The Pirates? Etc? I don't think you can have one set of rules for one team and another set for other teams. What exactly are "the rules" upon which a commissioner could force the Mets to sell? I think ownership has to maintain specific debt/income ratios. I don't know what other "rules" apply.
    That's fair but when does this team become profitable again?

    When they have 3 or 4 seasons in a row of 35-40 million dollar payrolls?

    I mean how is this team supposed to compete during that time?

    Eventually there needs to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere and yes to some extent larger market teams are held to different standards because of the money they generate (or in this case supposed to).

    There is really no reason why this team should be hemorrhaging money year in and year out. That at some point has to set off warning flags that there is a bigger problem here that needs to be addressed.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-10-2013 at 07:47 AM.

  5. #20
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    IIRC the Mets lost money on a 93% capacity season recently. The annual debt burden on the team is incredible.

  6. #21
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    The annual debt is about $65.5M, plus $320M in 2014. They're refinancing just to pay op, costs with payroll today at $70M.

    They say there's money, but they haven't spent a single dime yet, and they haven't since the Reyes windfall. Now, people can argue that this team won't compete next year, and it won't, but is it not in owners interests to spend a few mill to shore up att.?

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    I don't think the team is any worse off than last year and we are looking at wins somewhere ion the 70s.

    Dickey is the biggest loss from last year. However someone will be pitching in his place and they will win 8-10 games. No one else on the team had such a year that it would be hard to repeat and many had years that would be easy to improve on. It will be hard to replicate the two out runs of the first half but it will also be hard to be as bad as we were in the second half.

    I see the team as being just as good/bad as 2012.

    Here's the real problem…this will be our fifth or sixth year in a row or mediocre baseball. Fans are losing interest. Even if we have a decent enough team, or just dumb luck, to win more than last year or reach .500, attendance may still drop. The Mets are becoming less relevant every year and more and more fans are losing interest. News about the team is just more yawn material. The die hards will always be there, but it's going to take a major move to generate some additional interest in the team again.

  8. #23
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    This idea that it's austerity for 2013, and then we're financially sound again by next October makes no sense, there's a Johan Santana difference between today and the end of the WS.

    How does that (on top of probable lowered revenue) tackle a $65.5M ANNUAL debt and $320M to be paid next year?

    THREE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS.

    This is a team who last year cut a minor league team to save pennies...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    I don't think the team is any worse off than last year and we are looking at wins somewhere ion the 70s.

    Dickey is the biggest loss from last year. However someone will be pitching in his place and they will win 8-10 games. No one else on the team had such a year that it would be hard to repeat and many had years that would be easy to improve on. It will be hard to replicate the two out runs of the first half but it will also be hard to be as bad as we were in the second half.

    I see the team as being just as good/bad as 2012.

    Here's the real problem…this will be our fifth or sixth year in a row or mediocre baseball. Fans are losing interest. Even if we have a decent enough team, or just dumb luck, to win more than last year or reach .500, attendance may still drop. The Mets are becoming less relevant every year and more and more fans are losing interest. News about the team is just more yawn material. The die hards will always be there, but it's going to take a major move to generate some additional interest in the team again.

    This is why resigning DW had to be done, there's little interest now, the fans know there's no money, you let a NY superstar walk and what reason is there for fans to have any interest in the team?

    NY'ers are not short of sports teams to give money too, the NYY may be down a little now, but they're still far more attractive proposition for casual fan.

  10. #25
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    I bet we under sold the true value of Dickey. Every 5th day pitching, workload off the bullpen, good batter, great at holding runners, probably through off hitters timing for next pitcher, fans in the seats, fans watching his games (I did), and giving the Mets more credit then they deserve.

    In the long run i expect this deal to help the team. A part of me says TDA lands in the outfield to preserve his hitting (strange gut feeling).
    " You seek Yoda!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    That's fair but when does this team become profitable again?

    When they have 3 or 4 seasons in a row of 35-40 million dollar payrolls?

    I mean how is this team supposed to compete during that time?

    Eventually there needs to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere and yes to some extent larger market teams are held to different standards because of the money they generate.

    There is really no reason why this team should be hemorrhaging money year in and year out. That at some point has to set off warning flags that there is a bigger problem here that needs to be addressed.
    I have always maintained that ownership should be given every opportunity to recover from a crime (Madoff). That's been my position, always, and I bookmarked the 2014 season as "enough time". What constitutes "recovery" imo? I'm not 100% sure, but some point I agree that they should probably sell if they cannot sustain appropriate payroll levels -- but I don't know under what circumstances the commissioner can step in and take control, legally.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-rock-man View Post
    I bet we under sold the true value of Dickey. Every 5th day pitching, workload off the bullpen, good batter, great at holding runners, probably through off hitters timing for next pitcher, fans in the seats, fans watching his games (I did), and giving the Mets more credit then they deserve.

    In the long run i expect this deal to help the team. A part of me says TDA lands in the outfield to preserve his hitting (strange gut feeling).
    Exactly, so many other benefits we've lost. The guy was a stud all over. Long-term, right move, short-term it's going to hurt badly.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Exactly, so many other benefits we've lost. The guy was a stud all over. Long-term, right move, short-term it's going to hurt badly.
    Yes but we had to expect some regression from Dickey in 2013.

    I think Niese, Gee, Harvey, Wheeler and whatever we get out of Santana before he is dealt or let go in 2014 will make for a fine rotation.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they found another SP before ST either.

    The bullpen didn't consist of most of the parts they ended the season with either so there is certainly room for improvement there.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Yes but we had to expect some regression from Dickey in 2013.

    I think Niese, Gee, Harvey, Wheeler and whatever we get out of Santana before he is dealt or let go in 2014 will make for a fine rotation.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they found another SP before ST either.

    The bullpen didn't consist of the parts they ended the season with either for the most part so there is certainly room for improvement.

    That's fine, but that's assuming no regression/injury from our remaining starters?

    As for the BP, they were happy to let them pitch whatever the consequences. Let's face it, they didn't give a damn how bad they BP was.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-rock-man View Post
    I bet we under sold the true value of Dickey. Every 5th day pitching, workload off the bullpen, good batter, great at holding runners, probably through off hitters timing for next pitcher, fans in the seats, fans watching his games (I did), and giving the Mets more credit then they deserve.

    In the long run i expect this deal to help the team. A part of me says TDA lands in the outfield to preserve his hitting (strange gut feeling).
    They finished 4th with him; they can finish 4th without him. He boosts attendance a little bit once a week. He was a nice guy and a great story but he was not a difference maker. He was about to get expensive.

    We got back a starting catcher for years and probably another starting pitcher. Given the financial situation of this team, they made the right move.

    Get over Dickey. He's gone.

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