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Thread: Enter-Sandy-Man

  1. #1
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    Enter-Sandy-Man

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/01...ndy-man-2.html


    The problem for the Wilpons, if you see the glass as half empty, is that they are using the profitable side of their business (leveraging their 65% stake in SNY to the hilt) not only to pay down debt on SNY, but on the Stadium side of operations which has bled losses of 143 million over the past three seasons. The team owes a crippling annual $43.5 million for Ebbe, er Citi Field which was predicted in that same Standard and Poor report to see another 8 percent drop in attendance this year. An 8% drop in attendance comes out to around 180,000 fewer paying fans. That’s roughly an additional 22 million dollar loss on top the standing 23 million dollar deficit from last year. So the Wilpons could be looking at losses of over 40 million in 2013. With this latest stratagem the Wilpons have increased money owed on SNY from 450 million to 700 million. There is still the matter of the debt on Citi Field which has not been paid down. That debt represents the same 43.5 million in yearly payments (and 22 million in annual interest) in addition to the 320 million lump-sum due in 2014. The argument that the ship is still sinking can certainly be made. It’s hard to know for sure how broke the Wilpons are. Irving Picard, the trustee for the Madoff victims, believed the Wilpons simply didn’t have the money he was looking for after thoroughly combing through their records. In the end, this refinancing is the equivalent of a second mortgage to help pay off a major debt, and it has the feel of a borrower tapping his last bit of collateral. My guess is they’ll use the 240 million to pay down the team debt and bank debt while they apply some of the 160 million to the stadium’s debt and some to operating expenses and cash flow for the next couple of seasons. They’re not getting any more bridge loans or emergency MLB loans, and if the bleeding doesn’t stop they’ll be in the same spot in a season or two without the option of borrowing more against SNY. All the while the fans continue to lament a diminishing Met budget and Alderson’s pathetic soirees into the free agent pool, but what they aren’t doing is buying tickets.


    Alderson comes out very well if you read the entire article, which I have. I wanted to highlight the intractable financial situation, if he's right about a $40M loss (with just an 8% drop in att) - then where the $$$$ coming from for 2014?

    Also what if the season is a disaster from the get-go? it could be - we all know this team paper thin with no depth, we had the worst BP is baseball last year and no help has arrived, we without doubt have the worst OF in baseball, we've lost a CY winner, and the only probably improvement is at catcher.

    How low will att, fall, if the Mets DON'T have a miraculous and unsustainable 1st half like last year?

    How much will they lost on a team that starts out 10 games under thru April and May? and gets no better?

    In either of these two scenarios - bad and terrible, where's the $$$ coming from? and if it's not there,. how long is it going to take to force them out and get new go-ahead owners?


    You've all made this case that 'no point spending if we can't win' - but IS there any money? is there?


    Where's payroll stand right now, does anyone know?

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    If the Mets do not win on the field, it is reasonable to believe that it will be harder to maintain a mid-level payroll, and it certainly will not increase substantially. Winning = revenue. The formula is clear.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

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    This person conveniently forgot about the AS game being held at Citi Field. Those tickets are extremely expensive, they will make $30M+ from that game alone, and that's not even for all the events.

    I don't think the Mets are going to be that much worse than last year. They should still win 70 games, retaining Hairston would help some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    This person conveniently forgot about the AS game being held at Citi Field. Those tickets are extremely expensive, they will make $30M+ from that game alone, and that's not even for the events.
    The A.S. Game is a MLB event.
    A Mets official clarified that statement to say the Mets get revenue that covers their expenses for putting on the event -- and that it's not a direct profit-making arrangement for the team (other than if it entices people to buy season tickets to get access to All-Star tickets). -- Adam Rubin
    Parking and concessions? I have no idea.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

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    This person conveniently forgot about the AS game being held at Citi Field. Those tickets are extremely expensive, they will make $30M+ from that game alone, and that's not even for all the events.

    I don't think the Mets are going to be that much worse than last year. They should still win 70 games, retaining Hairston would help some.



    $30M, how do you know that?

    Can't have the ASG every year either.

    Also the team won 74 games on the back of an unsustainble streak and a CY winner, they're not happening again.
    Last edited by Marty Mcfly; 01-10-2013 at 06:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    The A.S. Game is a MLB event.


    Parking and concessions? I have no idea.
    Oh OK, that's my bad but they should still make good money from the events.

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    I think it comes down to how healthy financially the Wilpons are outside of the Mets.

    That will dictate whether or not they have the resources to fix this team.

    There's also the 160 million dollars they just got in refinanced money. I know your feelings on where that will go btw but there is a possibility some of that money will used to improve the Mets.

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/12...-reported.html

    Sterling Equities has over $4 billion dollars in value. SNY is valued at over $2 billion. The Mets who are worth at least $2 billion, just announced that they are bringing back the GCL Mets affiliate, and additionally they have just taken over the Kingsport Mets affiliate.
    That doesn't include the Wilpon's commercial real estate holdings and would suggest the Wilpons have plenty of legs to stand on.

    Like i said you could conceivably be right about this whole situation the problem is that even though you are Marty Mcfly we don't have a flux capacitor to know what 2014 and 2015 will be like.

    What i will say is that Bud Selig is gone after the 2014 season so if this continues with the Mets and the Wilpons i would have to believe something at that point will be done to relinquish their ownership (with a new commissioner in place)
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-10-2013 at 06:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Oh OK, that's my bad but they should still make good money from the events.
    Bummer though, right? I was disappointed to read they don't make as much profit as hoped off the game.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    This person conveniently forgot about the AS game being held at Citi Field. Those tickets are extremely expensive, they will make $30M+ from that game alone, and that's not even for all the events.

    I don't think the Mets are going to be that much worse than last year. They should still win 70 games, retaining Hairston would help some.



    $30M, how do you know that?

    Can't have the ASG every year either.

    Also the team won 74 games on the back of an unsustainble streak and a CY winner, they're not happening again.
    Yeah well the assumption is we don't win 28 games after the all star break again.

    I mean you only have to go 35-46 each half of the season to win 70 games and although this team lost Dickey their bullpen should be better and the SP should still be serviceable with the chance of being good.

    We have 4 young guys in Gee, Niese, Harvey and Wheeler but they can make a very solid 4 SP halfway through the season.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    This person conveniently forgot about the AS game being held at Citi Field. Those tickets are extremely expensive, they will make $30M+ from that game alone, and that's not even for all the events.

    I don't think the Mets are going to be that much worse than last year. They should still win 70 games, retaining Hairston would help some.
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I think it comes down to how healthy financially the Wilpons are outside of the Mets.

    That will dictate whether or not they have the resources to fix this team.

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/12...-reported.html



    That doesn't include the Wilpon's commercial real estate holdings.

    Like i said you could conceivably be right about this whole situation the problem is that even though you are Marty Mcfly we don't have a flux capacitor to know what 2014 and 2015 will be like.

    What i will say is that Bud Selig is gone after the 2014 season so if this continues with the Mets and the Wilpons i would have to believe something at that point will be done to relinquish their ownership.

    I think it's wishful thinking, they're not pilling money in to pay for baseball players, they're using other assets like SNY to remortgage the future, if they can keep the team afloat and win 80 games, that's job done for them.

    When have the ever put money in from elsewhere, other than Madoff?


    Eevn if the team wins, there's still not much money, if the team is funding it.
    Last edited by Marty Mcfly; 01-10-2013 at 07:04 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by marty mcfly View Post
    $30m, how do you know that?

    Can't have the asg every year either.

    Also the team won 74 games on the back of an unsustainble streak and a cy winner, they're not happening again.
    I calculated the average ticket price of the AS game in KC by the seat capacity in Citi Field. The tickets will be more money since it's in NY though.

    It's unclear how much of that the Mets get, nevermind concessions and parking.

    Duda also had a horrible year, Ike had a terrible 1st half, Wright was mediocre in the 2nd half, Kirk tailed off and didn't play in the 2nd half, our catchers were garbage, Murphy has done better, Bay was a disaster, our rotation fell apart in the 2nd half due to injuries, and the pen was one of the worst.

    There should be more bouncebacks than setbacks in 2013, not to mention all the new young talent we'll be playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    ...What i will say is that Bud Selig is gone after the 2014 season so if this continues with the Mets and the Wilpons i would have to believe something at that point will be done to relinquish their ownership.
    To be replaced by Sandy Alderson?

    Chances are that a replacement for Selig will come from the same baseball fraternity. I find it hard to believe the owners will hire an outsider, like Bart Giamatti.

    Bud Selig turned control of the Brewers over to his daughter when he became commissioner, I wonder if Fred Wilpon would turn control over to Jeff and become Bud's replacement?
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Bummer though, right? I was disappointed to read they don't make as much profit as hoped off the game.
    For them maybe, I really don't give a **** about the Wilpons and I still hope they lose the team at some point. Wishful thinking I know, but whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I calculated the average ticket price of the AS game in KC by the seat capacity in Citi Field. The tickets will be more money since it's in NY though.

    It's unclear how much of that the Mets get, nevermind concessions and parking.

    Duda also had a horrible year, Ike had a terrible 1st half, Wright was mediocre in the 2nd half, Kirk tailed off and didn't play in the 2nd half, our catchers were garbage, Murphy has done better, Bay was a disaster, our rotation fell apart in the 2nd half due to injuries, and the pen was one of the worst.

    There should be more bouncebacks than setbacks in 2013, not to mention all the new young talent we'll be playing.


    Duda is horrible though.


    We say this every year, every team just about is saying that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    To be replaced by Sandy Alderson?

    Chances are that a replacement for Selig will come from the same baseball fraternity. I find it hard to believe the owners will hire an outsider, like Bart Giamatti.

    Bud Selig turned control of the Brewers over to his daughter when he became commissioner, I wonder if Fred Wilpon would turn control over to Jeff and become Bud's replacement?
    Well of course the assumption will be it's someone close in rank and relationship to Bud but i still get the impression if this continues with the Mets, baseball will only be able to look away for so long (no matter who is running it).

    I know that's a different point and you have different feelings on the subject of the Wilpons and their existing ownership but if the Wilpons continue to have these perceived financial issues something will come to a head either be it by baseball or otherwise.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-10-2013 at 07:10 AM.

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