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  1. #61
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    TD is right. No one is saying that Love is a bad player. He is great. No one is saying that a healthy Love is not the best player on this team. What TD said is that the injured Love that came back this season is not better than Pek, at least stat wise.
    No one said that we must trade Love. I wondered whether it would be better to have someone with less talent but settled instead of a star who can blow all our efforts to build this team with his attitude. Josh Smith or Millsap are such players. And if there was a trade for them they wouldn't come alone. i.e. Millsap could come with Kanter or even Favors.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    I don't want my words to be twisted like people's words were being twisted about Andy Varejao. Healthy Love makes a big difference. Even when he's whining, complaining and serving as a swinging door on defense, 2011-12 Love has an offensive to defensive rating of 117 to 104. That leads to wins. My argument in this thread is that this year's crippled version of the usual egotistical Love is not in fact still better than anyone on our team.
    It goes well beyond his offensive and defensive ratings, but yes, the Love of 2010-2012, if healthy, makes this a 50 win team. The current Love has not played well, maybe due to coming back too quickly, and then being a baby, but for whatever reason, he was not having a good season outside a couple of games.

    And yes, I am a proponent of looking into trading Love (that's not saying "trade him for whatever you can get"). I could look back for the exact date I decided upon this but it was before his comments came out. I just am simply tired of his attitude towards defense and playing as a team. This is a fellow who said he'd be okay with his stats dropping "a little bit" if it meant that the team was winning i.e. stats are far important too him. Love hasn't matured at all from last year and that is the problem.
    Impossible to get fair value for him right now. Him being hurt, playing poorly, and now being publically perceived to have maturity problems will make any return we get not equal to the caliber player he is right now. You have to wait until he returns to beast mode before you even attempt to trade him.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #63
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    Impossible to get fair value for him right now. Him being hurt, playing poorly, and now being publically perceived to have maturity problems will make any return we get not equal to the caliber player he is right now. You have to wait until he returns to beast mode before you even attempt to trade him.[/QUOTE]

    The problem with that is, if Kevin is in beast mode, you can't get that value back unless you get another top 10 player - otherwise you get pieces and parts and fixins' and leavins' that you hope add up to a top 10 player but never do.

    So the question for the wolves is: can Love come back and be the player he was. If so you keep him, if not you move him and hope that Utah's scraps can help you. I think Love is kind of a jerk, but I'm all in with him from now until he forces himself out.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Impossible to get fair value for him right now. Him being hurt, playing poorly, and now being publically perceived to have maturity problems will make any return we get not equal to the caliber player he is right now. You have to wait until he returns to beast mode before you even attempt to trade him.
    Nearly impossible (just thinking some stranger things have happened), but I'm not in any rush for him to be traded. I just think his attitude on the court has pushed him away from being untouchable to being someone you have cursory conversations about and get serious if something catches your eye.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdog View Post
    Nearly impossible (just thinking some stranger things have happened), but I'm not in any rush for him to be traded. I just think his attitude on the court has pushed him away from being untouchable to being someone you have cursory conversations about and get serious if something catches your eye.
    well, nobody is untouchable in the NBA. I just think right now would be an awful time to even explore or suggest trading him. We aren't getting value that equates to an All NBA player who is 24 years old entering a decent contract. Despite Love's lost season so far, the injuries are the main culprit, so you just need to hope his hand really heals this time, and he gets back for a hopeful push into that 8th seed. Though I don't think this team will be within striking range at that point.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigus Dogus View Post

    The problem with that is, if Kevin is in beast mode, you can't get that value back unless you get another top 10 player - otherwise you get pieces and parts and fixins' and leavins' that you hope add up to a top 10 player but never do.

    So the question for the wolves is: can Love come back and be the player he was. If so you keep him, if not you move him and hope that Utah's scraps can help you. I think Love is kind of a jerk, but I'm all in with him from now until he forces himself out.
    I think he will be a top 10 player again next year, yes.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  7. #67
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    I don't know why you will want to do knuckle push up in the first place when your 6'10'' and weight over 250 plus pound. Love has no one to blame but himself for doing something stupid that he shouldn't had. Seems like Williams is playing great basketball the last 3 games. Williams is getting a second chance now to prove to the T-Wolves since Love is hurt and will be out for a while.

  8. #68
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    It seems like when Williams play 20-30 minutes a game he perform good. The T-Wolves should give him more minutes.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman01 View Post
    It seems like when Williams play 20-30 minutes a game he perform good. The T-Wolves should give him more minutes.
    He wasn't that brilliant in the last game, his last 6 points(3-3) were in garbage time..

    Shved too, he had some terrible turnovers, I think he gets tired in the games, the league is too physical for him. Limit him to 36 min?

    On the other hand, Pek was awesome, his every bucket was with their entire defense adjusted against him.

  10. #70
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    Williams still needs some time, he still does some stupid stuff out there, but he is progressing.
    Now why did the Wolves do that?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4wanderingeyes View Post
    Williams still needs some time, he still does some stupid stuff out there, but he is progressing.
    the important part

  12. #72
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    If the Love situation goes sour, I know for sure my Bulls will be pursuing Love. I respect that he is a Timberwolf, and it's sad to know that he's been injured this season. Now I don't know the situation is for Minnesota, but it seems as if Love does not want to be there and you guys have a promising team. If Love is ever traded, I don't think the Wolves will ever get equal value since the Wolves will be a team trading their star, well if that situation ever happens. I've thought about a reasonable trade for all parties, and one trade that is decent in my opinion is a three-way trade between Chicago, Minnesota, and New Orleans.

    BULLS Get: Kevin Love and Brandon Roy (Bulls get a legitimate star right next to Rose, and we'll gladly take Roy's contract)

    WOLVES Get: Eric Gordon, Taj Gibson, CHA Pick, 2 CHI Picks (High-risk high-reward player in Gordon and would compliment Rubio a lot. This will also give D-Will a chance to blossom. Wolves also get a solid PF in Taj and future picks.)

    HORNETS Get: Luol Deng and Rip Hamilton (Hornets get a legitimate SF to fill in the void at that position. They will easily have one of the best and versatile front-line in the NBA. Rip will provide depth from the bench.)

  13. #73
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    Bulls make out like bandits. I know your scenario is predicated on Love wanting out and us taking what we can get, but a seldom healthy EG as a centerpiece would be a terrible return on investment imho.. EG a few years ago? Maybe (and that's a stretch). EG now? No thank you.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimKid View Post
    Bulls make out like bandits. I know your scenario is predicated on Love wanting out and us taking what we can get, but a seldom healthy EG as a centerpiece would be a terrible return on investment imho.. EG a few years ago? Maybe (and that's a stretch). EG now? No thank you.
    EG seems like he just doesn't want to be in New Orleans, and he's a Midwestern kid. I personally believe his injury is not as bad as advertised. He had a bruised knee and opted to have surgery to prevent future damages. He was preparing his departure from the Hornets until Demps decided to match Phoenix offer. He has shown the last few games that physically he's the same player. EG actually has star potential.

    A disgruntled Love may not net you a fair value, especially if he's dead set on the teams he'll sign an extension with. That's just reality. Off-course he may end up staying in Minnesota, but the damage has been done.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsFTW View Post
    If the Love situation goes sour, I know for sure my Bulls will be pursuing Love. I respect that he is a Timberwolf, and it's sad to know that he's been injured this season. Now I don't know the situation is for Minnesota, but it seems as if Love does not want to be there and you guys have a promising team. If Love is ever traded, I don't think the Wolves will ever get equal value since the Wolves will be a team trading their star, well if that situation ever happens. I've thought about a reasonable trade for all parties, and one trade that is decent in my opinion is a three-way trade between Chicago, Minnesota, and New Orleans.

    BULLS Get: Kevin Love and Brandon Roy (Bulls get a legitimate star right next to Rose, and we'll gladly take Roy's contract)

    WOLVES Get: Eric Gordon, Taj Gibson, CHA Pick, 2 CHI Picks (High-risk high-reward player in Gordon and would compliment Rubio a lot. This will also give D-Will a chance to blossom. Wolves also get a solid PF in Taj and future picks.)

    HORNETS Get: Luol Deng and Rip Hamilton (Hornets get a legitimate SF to fill in the void at that position. They will easily have one of the best and versatile front-line in the NBA. Rip will provide depth from the bench.)
    I'm not sure that Deng is what New Orleans is after, but I guess that's not the most important part in a discussion between Wolves and Bulls fans

    Assuming that hypothetical is not something that would happen tomorrow and that there would be some time to see where Gordon was at as far as health and recovery, it's not a terrible deal. The Charlotte pick definitely is a nice piece and Gordon is a top shooting guard when healthy.

    My biggest complaint is probably Taj Gibson. While I think he is a very nice player and has been underrated for some time, $8M is too much money for his services (at least on this Wolves team).

    So, would I do it? Eh, probably not. Can I outright say no? Nope.

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