Nobody makes the HOF

[numbers-king]

I'm in the old school camp. First ballot should be reserved for the truly great. Piazza will get in next year.

[metswon69]

Piazza is arguably (imo he is) the greatest offensive catcher of all time.

If anyone deserved to go in this year it was him.

[numbers-king]

Piazza is arguably the greatest offensive catcher of all time.

If anyone deserved to go in this year it was him.

If he had put those numbers up in the 80s, then yes, no problem. But I compare era's. His numbers were great for a catcher, but not spectacular for the era.

I don't think he was a first-ballot guy IMO.

[YoungStuna]

If he had put those numbers up in the 80s, then yes, no problem. But I compare era's. His numbers were great for a catcher, but not spectacular for the era.

I don't think he was a first-ballot guy IMO.

They were still spectacular for a catcher in the era, therefore he should have gotten in.

[numbers-king]

He'll get in.

[jomota]

I'm in the old school camp. First ballot should be reserved for the truly great. Piazza will get in next year.

I'm of an even older school. Piazza will probably get in eventually.

I think you could make a case that about a third of the players shouldn't be in there at all. Maybe more. The HOF should be for the really greats; not just the pretty goods or the nice guys.

The old timers committee is a joke. If you don't make it in during your regular time, you don't get in. End of story.

[metswon69]

They were still spectacular for a catcher in the era, therefore he should have gotten in.

This..

How many other catchers put up the numbers Piazza did in the steroid era?

None..

I mean you have to go back to Johnny Bench or Carlton Fisk to compare a catcher with that type of offensive ability and even those guys weren't the hitters Piazza was.

[YoungStuna]

He'll get in.

The only argument that can be made against Piazza being a 1st ballot HOF is his defense behind the plate. Other than that, he's definitely a 1st ballot guy considering he was not once linked to steroids with substantial proof.

[YoungStuna]

This..

How many other catchers put up the numbers Piazza did in the steroid era?

None..

I mean you have to go back to Johnny Bench or Carlton Fisk to compare a catcher with that type of offensive ability and even those guys weren't the hitters Piazza was.

He's the best power-hitting catcher of all time, but Mickey Cochrane had better numbers.

[numbers-king]

I'm of an even older school. Piazza will probably get in eventually.

I think you could make a case that about a third of the players shouldn't be in there at all. Maybe more. The HOF should be for the really greats; not just the pretty goods or the nice guys.

The old timers committee is a joke. If you don't make it in during your regular time, you don't get in. End of story.

Yep. I agree. The HOF isn't for the really greats anymore. The very good's have been getting in for the past 10 years. The only thing left to do is to distinguish them by when they get in.

First ballot should be reserved for legendary players and Piazza is not a legendary player IMO.

[metswon69]

He's the best power-hitting catcher of all time, but Mickey Cochrane had better numbers.

Yeah a better BA but Piazza had a better career OPS, rWAR, home runs, RBIS, runs scored.

The only stain on Piazza's legacy is like you said his defense and the unfortunate fact that he played in the steroid era.

Of course anyone who assumes Piazza did steroids might be more partial to other catchers but obviously there's no direct link between Piazza and PEDS.

[metswon69]

Yep. I agree. The HOF isn't for the really greats anymore. The very good's have been getting in for the past 10 years. The only thing left to do is to distinguish them by when they get in.

First ballot should be reserved for legendary players.

I agree with your first point but Piazza to me at least is not very good.

He's among the greats.

[numbers-king]

Yeah a better BA but Piazza had a better career OPS, rWAR, home runs, RBIS, runs scored.

The only stain on Piazza's legacy is like you said his defense and the unfortunate fact that he played in the steroid era.

Of course anyone who assumes Piazza did steroids might be more partial to other catchers but obviously there's no direct link between Piazza and PEDS.

His rise from where he was in high school to where his career finished should raise suspicions. Even amongst Mets fans.

[metswon69]

His rise from where he was in high school to where his career finished should raise suspicions. Even amongst Mets fans.

It is to some degree but there was never any concrete evidence against him.

Even the Met's clubhouse guy (the name is not coming to me) who was influential in the Mitchell Report didn't include Piazza's name when they asked him.

He did however mention Todd Hundley.

[metswon69]

Hey look i'll admit its more than conceivable Piazza was a steroid user and maybe i have Met blinders on but Piazza wasn't like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro where there was direct linkage.

If they were just evaluating careers and not lumping all these guys together (because they were guilty by association) Piazza belonged in first ballot.