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View Poll Results: Do you Consider Bill Russell A Top Ten Player Of All-Time?

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  • Yes

    32 68.09%
  • No

    15 31.91%
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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashMacker View Post
    Plus Duncan played most his career at power forward so why is he being mentioned with centers?
    Because he could have played Center in the 60's for sure considering Russell was only 6'9.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I will say, Kobe fans who use his team success had better have Russell top 5 ever. Otherwise, they are completely contradicting themselves.
    Would you say the same to Larry Bird fans also?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by conway429 View Post
    And you just did the same thing about a guy who won 5 MVPs

    If you put Bill Russell in today's NBA, then no, he isn't as good as he was back in the day. But that can be said for any player, which is why you can't compare eras. Transport a guy like Jason Richardson back to the 1930s, and he's probably the GOAT. Players will continue to get faster, stronger and more athletic as time goes by.

    Bill Russell is not a top 10 basketball talent of all-time, but I think he's no doubt a top 10 player.
    Since when did MVP's measure individual success. There are lots of arguments about the validity of the MVP award and its credibility. Again, you must take era's into account. Wilt is top five of all time for a reason. Do you agree that if he were in today's NBA, he would be the best center?

    Why is he a top ten player??? due to rings???

    Than by that logic, Havlicek should be ranked a lot higher as well.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I partially agree with you, which is why Russell, to me, is barely in my top 10. Trust me, I have gotten heat for that before, he was just so offensively limited, and played against like 9 teams with a super stacked squad. But his defensive dominance, rebounding, toughness, and matchup domination against Wilt are impressive.

    Trying to understand this right. Are you saying if you took a time machine, and Russell, exactly the player he was at the time, and put him now, he wouldn't lead teams to rings?
    I think the team would have to be incredibly stacked and the opposing team in the finals would have to be heavily reliant on a center offensively. Then Russell would be able to shut down their main offensive weapon, but I don't think he would be the finals MVP by any means.

  5. #20
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    It's like saying Thomas Edison isn't one of the greatest inventors of all-time because all he did was invent the light bulb, phonograph and motion picture cameras, all of which wouldn't be impressive by today's standards.

  6. #21
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    a lakers fan trying to discredit a celtic legend

    the funny thing is number of rings are used by laker fans to bump kobe in all-time rankings

    pathetic

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Since when did MVP's measure individual success. There are lots of arguments about the validity of the MVP award and its credibility. Again, you must take era's into account. Wilt is top five of all time for a reason. Do you agree that if he were in today's NBA, he would be the best center?

    Why is he a top ten player??? due to rings???

    Than by that logic, Havlicek should be ranked a lot higher as well.
    Why are you telling me to take eras into account? That's the point of my entire post.... you're the one who's ignoring eras and comparing players from 50 years ago to the same standard as ones today.
    You're confusing me...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by conway429 View Post
    It's like saying Thomas Edison isn't one of the greatest inventors of all-time because all he did was invent the light bulb, phonograph and motion picture cameras, all of which wouldn't be impressive by today's standards.
    Not a good comparison at all...What did Russell really pioneer? He didn't really invent anything. He just was fortunate enough to be on of the first true great big men on a really stacked team in a much weaker era.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Because he could have played Center in the 60's for sure considering Russell was only 6'9.
    but he didnt though so he shouldn't be mentioned with centers. thats like saying we can compare lebron with power forwards because sometimes he plays power lol

    duncan played mostly at power so he shouldnt be mentioned with centers
    NBA - Miami Heat
    MLB - Detroit Tigers

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by conway429 View Post
    Why are you telling me to take eras into account? That's the point of my entire post.... you're the one who's ignoring eras and comparing players from 50 years ago to the same standard as ones today.
    You're confusing me...
    IMO, if you put Russell on any of Shaq, Duncan, or Hakeem's teams, they wouldn't have won rings. That to me says a lot. How can you rank someone as the better player when they couldn't have equal or better results in a similar situation? How come we are not allowed to ask these questions when ranking the all-time greats?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolafan33 View Post
    Russells's the best center to play the game.

    Also, Duncan > Shaq
    No he is not, and this is from the only PSD poster I know of that saw him play, and was and is a Celtics fan.

    Firstly the title argument has to be modified. He won about 4-5 of his titles in a league with 7 other teams in it, 3-4 of the others with 8, and a couple of years with 9 and one with 11. Magic's titles as a group were much harder to obtain then Russell's as a group IMO.

    Also, Russell having the best Coach, GM, and most of the time by far best team to go with him has to be taken into consideration. Ask yourself how many titles he has if he's on the Pistons instead of the Celts.

    Russell is the only player that has any argument whatever to be in the top 20 all time that was essentially a one way player. It's been argued he could have scored more - he could have early, but by 1964-1965 the league was full of very capable to great 7 footers, and Russell was no longer able to get his offense off. He was a poor FT shooter, had a very elemental offense, even for the time.

    Hakeem
    Duncan
    Robinson
    Moses
    Jabbar
    Wilt
    Shaq
    Ewing

    IMO are all clearly better, if you extract the myths away from the facts.

    As a winner, leader, rebounder, passer, and defender he still stands up very well after all these years, but his lack of offensive skill AND production (outside of passing and offensive rebounding) is a huge negative.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-08-2013 at 08:39 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by i.got.the.nutz View Post
    Would you say the same to Larry Bird fans also?
    don't have a lot of discussion/homerism regarding Larry here...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashMacker View Post
    but he didnt though so he shouldn't be mentioned with centers. thats like saying we can compare lebron with power forwards because sometimes he plays power lol

    duncan played mostly at power so he shouldnt be mentioned with centers
    Duncan played defense against the toughest centers of his era, as well as the toughest centers of his era played defense against him. Lebron is not a good comparison because he plays too much from the wing to be compared to a PF. Duncan is a forward/center for sure.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Not a good comparison at all...What did Russell really pioneer? He didn't really invent anything. He just was fortunate enough to be on of the first true great big men on a really stacked team in a much weaker era.
    Except for the fact him and Wilt Chamberlain pretty much battled it out every year for his entire career... wtf are you talking about

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    No he is not, and this is from the only PSD poster I know of that saw him play, and was and is a Celtics fan.

    Firstly the title argument has to be modified. He won about 4-5 of his titles in a league with 7 other teams in it, 3-4 of the others with 8, and a couple of years with 9 and one with 11. Magic's titles as a group were much harder to obtain then Russell's as a group IMO.

    Also, Russell having the best Coach, GM, and most of the time by far best team to go with him has to be taken into consideration. Ask yourself how many titles he has if he's on the Pistons instead of the Celts.

    Russell is the only player that has any argument whatever to be in the top 20 all time that was essentially a one way player. It's been argued he could have scored more - he could have early, but by 1964-1965 the league was full of very capable to great 7 footers, and Russell was no longer able to get his offense off. He was a poor FT shooter, had a very elemental offense, even for the time.

    Hakeem
    Duncan
    Robinson
    Moses
    Jabbar
    Wilt
    Shaq
    Ewing

    IMO are all clearly better, if you extract the myths away from the facts.

    As a winner, leader, rebounder, passer, and defender he still stands up very well after all these years, but his lack of offensive skill AND production (outside of passing and offensive rebounding) is a huge negative.
    If this doesn't say it, than I don't know what does. And from a Celtics fan none the less.

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