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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    You lost me at " kobe has sacrificed".

    He has sacrifized JACK in his career.

    When he was young he was FORCED to sacrifice ( HIS NUMBERS) because Shaq was the Man, and btw the whole thing went to hell when whe no longer felt like doing it.
    Worht mentionin that in 03 and 04 when he stopped sacrificing his numbers the thing went to HELL.

    He hasnt sacrificed JACK the rest of his career.
    He shoots whenever he wants.

    Whenever he is near to a milestone he shoots like crazy.

    He takes all the shots in close games in the fourth quarters ( o yeah im impressed a lot with his unselfishness when he starts the game playing team game but in the 4th quarter he starts jacking up shots when triple teamed).
    +
    TO hell with the blinders.
    Heres one thing I dont understand when it comes to this argument. Kobe, being Kobe, has managed to become the most dominant player (in terms of winning) of this era and generation. You may call him a "ball hog", "chucker," a "bad teammate," and etc.. but he has proven that he knows how to win, moreso than anyone else playing. So, with that said, shouldnt others alter their games to fit with Kobe's? Especially when these others have never had the same success Kobe has had. I dont know, but I dont think someone just becomes the most winningest player of a generation from not understanding how to win.

    Kobe doesnt seem to be the problem here. In fact, Kobe is actually playing spectacularly this season. It seems he is getting some criticism for his teammates underperforming. Maybe thats warranted. However, Kobe has always elevated the play of his teammates, even when he had guys like Smush, Luke, Cook etc... It was no coincidence those guys couldnt find roles in the league without Kobe by their side.

    I guess the point I am trying to make is enough with the dumb Kobe criticisms. Kobe is Kobe and he shouldnt change that. He is proven to be the greatest player of his era. His teammates should make more of a concerted effort to match his intensity and his preparation.

  2. #32
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    Top 5 offensive team. Offense isnt the problem.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenged24 View Post
    Kobe plays great, team loses - Kobe's fault.

    Kobe plays great, team wins - Pau or Shaq is the reason.

    pretty much this lol go figure

  4. #34
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    PISS POOR effort on defense is the main problem.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I think the bigs should show something before getting it but I see what you mean. Kind of wish Kobe sat some games so we could see how the Lakers operate for a larger sample of work without him. Because thus far I think the Lakers would be far worse if Kobe did less.
    His play this year has also changed my perspective.
    If he could maintain his current level of offensive production and efficiency with good consistency then maybe the bigs wouldn't have to produce as much.

    However this raises another issue.

    Kobe is 34 years old and is in his 17th season.
    I find it hard to believe he is physically capable of maintaining this level of play and handling this many mpg over an entire season and playoff run without a huge decline in his level of play eventually even if he stops playing defense entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by beliges View Post
    Kobe, being Kobe, has managed to become the most dominant player (in terms of winning) of this era and generation.

    Kobe over his career has won 2 titles as the leader and only 1 title as the clear cut best player on his own team.

    He is hardly some All-Time great winner or the biggest winner of his own era where guys like Shaq, Duncan and eventually Lebron all have/will surpass him by a significant margin in that sense.
    Last edited by Andrew32; 01-07-2013 at 05:41 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by beliges View Post
    Heres one thing I dont understand when it comes to this argument. Kobe, being Kobe, has managed to become the most dominant player (in terms of winning) of this era and generation. You may call him a "ball hog", "chucker," a "bad teammate," and etc.. but he has proven that he knows how to win, moreso than anyone else playing. So, with that said, shouldnt others alter their games to fit with Kobe's? Especially when these others have never had the same success Kobe has had. I dont know, but I dont think someone just becomes the most winningest player of a generation from not understanding how to win.

    Kobe doesnt seem to be the problem here. In fact, Kobe is actually playing spectacularly this season. It seems he is getting some criticism for his teammates underperforming. Maybe thats warranted. However, Kobe has always elevated the play of his teammates, even when he had guys like Smush, Luke, Cook etc... It was no coincidence those guys couldnt find roles in the league without Kobe by their side.

    I guess the point I am trying to make is enough with the dumb Kobe criticisms. Kobe is Kobe and he shouldnt change that. He is proven to be the greatest player of his era. His teammates should make more of a concerted effort to match his intensity and his preparation.
    Stop!!!! YOUR MAKING TO MUCH SENSE!!!!!! but seriously its also funny when people say he won because of Phil, but Phil won becuase of Jordan, and Pop won becuase Timmy.

    Kobe hate is funny

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSkyHook View Post
    Stop!!!! YOUR MAKING TO MUCH SENSE!!!!!! but seriously its also funny when people say he won because of Phil, but Phil won becuase of Jordan, and Pop won becuase Timmy.

    Kobe hate is funny
    PJax was certainly a major reason for Kobe winning. He learned a lot from Phil and always reflects his appreciation for PJax. But the dude is one of the 7 or 8 greatest players to have ever played the game and has dominated moreso than anyone in this league since Magic and MJ. The dude knows how to win and how to perform. He has even surpassed the other all time greats of his era such as Duncan and Shaq as far as career achievements and success. I understand why he gets criticized a lot because it simply comes with the territory. But most people have to reach real real hard to try to make sense of some of the criticism.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by showtym24 View Post
    Top 5 offensive team. Offense isnt the problem.
    Amazing how high they are given what they have had to work with for much of the year I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by showtym24 View Post
    PISS POOR effort on defense is the main problem.
    True, in a simpler world this excuse would be enough. The problem is that maybe the Lakers were overrated on both ends, they havent had much time to gel together but they havent been the offensive powerhouse I was hoping for in their short time together.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beliges View Post
    Heres one thing I dont understand when it comes to this argument. Kobe, being Kobe, has managed to become the most dominant player (in terms of winning) of this era and generation. You may call him a "ball hog", "chucker," a "bad teammate," and etc.. but he has proven that he knows how to win, moreso than anyone else playing. So, with that said, shouldnt others alter their games to fit with Kobe's? Especially when these others have never had the same success Kobe has had. I dont know, but I dont think someone just becomes the most winningest player of a generation from not understanding how to win.
    I agree with alot of what your saying, but whats striking to me is how many similarities I see with how you defend Kobe and I defend Wilt Chamberlain's 1969 Season.

    My only question is, what do you think of the Lakers desire to run a Nash-centric offense? Or do you think they hired D'Antoni to find a way to utilize both Nash and Kobe to the highest degree? Because it brings up an interesting point that JVG mentioned on air vs the Knicks. In the big plays down the stretch, Kobe deferred to Nash and let him set the table.

    Doesnt that imply that Kobe is conforming to fit Nash's style? I want to say yes but the truth is, this hasn't looked like D'Anoni's offense and it isn't the style Kobe has played over the years either. Its something of a hybrid but what do you hope the offense settles into?
    On one hand, Kobe has won at a high level with his style, but Nash has QB'd some of the best offenses we've ever seen over the years. Or are they on the right track trying to find a balance between both?

    One thing they have yet to try is rest Kobe and play Nash for a heavy stretch.
    Last edited by Chronz; 01-07-2013 at 06:18 PM.


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew32 View Post
    He has NEVER sacrificed.
    That is pro-Kobe propoganda spit by the man himself.

    He never sacrificed even in those years.

    In the 01-02 playoffs he averaged 22.5 FGA.
    In the 08-10 playoffs he averaged 22.5 FGA.

    Yes in 00 he averaged only 18 FGA but that was already more then he could handle.
    You don't want to give a 50%TS player inefficient offensive player more touches.
    then why should Pau get more touches? he currently has 48%TS this season....

    Dwight also has a 18% TO with 22% USG
    Pau has 13% TO with 19% USG......

    those aren't exactly great ratios and they aren't even facilitators.....

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Money_23 View Post
    then why should Pau get more touches? he currently has 48%TS this season....

    Dwight also has a 18% TO with 22% USG
    Pau has 13% TO with 19% USG......

    those aren't exactly great ratios and they aren't even facilitators.....
    Good points


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Money_23 View Post
    those aren't exactly great ratios and they aren't even facilitators.....
    Pau is a great facilitator.

  13. #43
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    if kobe didn't take over about 20 games this season they would have lost by 15+ points. why give the ball up when pau isnt hitting a shot or d12 isnt making FTs. i would rather see nash or kobe shoot. also meeks needs to step up his 3pt shooting and they will play better

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shep33 View Post
    How much of the Kobe criticism is just people not liking him as a person? I mean he's been the most efficient SG in the NBA, heck he has a top 5 PER. We criticized him in the past because he was inefficient, now we're criticizing him because he's too efficient?

    I have no problem with people admitting they don't like him, but the criticism is going overboard some times.

    Not once has anybody mentioned how poor the Lakers defense is, or how the Lakers bench is one of the worst in the NBA, or even how Pau is having the worst season of his career.
    I think it comes from people Trying to piece together why the Lakers are below 500 with such great talent. This is more or less it
    Dwight becuase he is hurt isnt as impactfull or reliabe as Bynum was last year Nash has been hurt and thus couldnt do anything to help therefor was less productive than sessions and gasol has been misused alltough metta on a plus side is in better shape.


    2012 allstar

  15. #45
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    Too bad it's correlated with a below .500 record.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMeOrHateMe View Post
    Kobe GOAT LOL
    ^Finally got one.

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