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  1. #1
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    Homer & Buy-outs

    Is Homer a Genius, lucky, or both? The 2 compliance buy-out really works for the Flyers. Let me first explain what I have heard about them. First, you can't use them on injured players, so anyone thinking Pronger will be bought out, think again. Second, you can't use the first buy-out until after this up-coming short season... stick that in your pipe and smoke it Sather. And Finally you can use both in 1 off-season, but you have up to 2.

    The second is what really works for the Flyers. If Bryz does not return to form this year, then the Flyers can buy him out and sign or trade for whatever goalie might be on the market. With his money, plus Timonen's money the Flyers will have about 17 million to replace 3 4th line guys, 2- top pair defenseman, and 2-goalies. It might not seem like much, but with lower caps com lower salaries. Get a top d-man for 5 million, Top goalie for 5 million, 2nd pair d-man for 3 million, Back-up goalie for 1 million, then ELC 750k 4th line players.

    The Flyers can then use the 2nd buyout in the summer of 14-15 to buyout the last year of Briere's contract. The Flyers will need that 6.5 million to resign Giroux, Schenn, Couts, Read, and Meszaros.

    So back to it... is Homer a genius by working this out this way, or did he just get lucky with how the buyouts are structured out?
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  2. #2
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    I wouldn't say a genius. While there was plenty of speculation that amnesty buyouts would be included in the new CBA, 113 days of lockout suggest that nothing in the new agreement was ever set in stone. Might it have been some calculated risk-taking? Yes, but the Bryz contract was bad then and it still is now (two thirds of that deal is still a lot to pay off even if it doesn't count against the cap).

    What I find interesting is that they'll probably amnesty Bryz even if he sets the world on fire this season because they can acquire similar talent this offseason at a fraction of the cost.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_dol50 View Post
    I wouldn't say a genius. While there was plenty of speculation that amnesty buyouts would be included in the new CBA, 113 days of lockout suggest that nothing in the new agreement was ever set in stone. Might it have been some calculated risk-taking? Yes, but the Bryz contract was bad then and it still is now (two thirds of that deal is still a lot to pay off even if it doesn't count against the cap).

    What I find interesting is that they'll probably amnesty Bryz even if he sets the world on fire this season because they can acquire similar talent this offseason at a fraction of the cost.
    If Bryz sets the world on fire, they may be able to trade him though.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  4. #4
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    I'm not sure about that. The Flyers are one of only a handful of teams who can afford that contract, hence the reason to use the amnesty in the first place.

    Learning to love the bomb since 2009

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post
    Is Homer a Genius, lucky, or both? The 2 compliance buy-out really works for the Flyers. Let me first explain what I have heard about them. First, you can't use them on injured players, so anyone thinking Pronger will be bought out, think again. Second, you can't use the first buy-out until after this up-coming short season... stick that in your pipe and smoke it Sather. And Finally you can use both in 1 off-season, but you have up to 2.

    The second is what really works for the Flyers. If Bryz does not return to form this year, then the Flyers can buy him out and sign or trade for whatever goalie might be on the market. With his money, plus Timonen's money the Flyers will have about 17 million to replace 3 4th line guys, 2- top pair defenseman, and 2-goalies. It might not seem like much, but with lower caps com lower salaries. Get a top d-man for 5 million, Top goalie for 5 million, 2nd pair d-man for 3 million, Back-up goalie for 1 million, then ELC 750k 4th line players.

    The Flyers can then use the 2nd buyout in the summer of 14-15 to buyout the last year of Briere's contract. The Flyers will need that 6.5 million to resign Giroux, Schenn, Couts, Read, and Meszaros.

    So back to it... is Homer a genius by working this out this way, or did he just get lucky with how the buyouts are structured out?
    I think more luck then genius, but that is my own opinion.

    Pronger can never be involved in the amnesty option unless he is eventually added back to the active roster. As long as he is on the LTD roster all he has to do is report to camp, go through the BS of stating he is unable to play, sign the paperwork, and go home. He has to do this each and every year until is contract runs out in 5 years. He is currently coaching his son back in St Louis, and has no plans/choice on ever playing again. He does not count against the cap, and we do not have to "waste" an amnesty spot on him.

    IMHO, I cut loose the Mad Russian and Briere. "Youare" probably knows the exact number but I believe it is $13M-14M for both of them. We esentially get a one year tryout for Bryz. If we don't like it, BYE BYE!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_PA View Post
    I think more luck then genius, but that is my own opinion.

    Pronger can never be involved in the amnesty option unless he is eventually added back to the active roster. As long as he is on the LTD roster all he has to do is report to camp, go through the BS of stating he is unable to play, sign the paperwork, and go home. He has to do this each and every year until is contract runs out in 5 years. He is currently coaching his son back in St Louis, and has no plans/choice on ever playing again. He does not count against the cap, and we do not have to "waste" an amnesty spot on him.

    IMHO, I cut loose the Mad Russian and Briere. "Youare" probably knows the exact number but I believe it is $13M-14M for both of them. We esentially get a one year tryout for Bryz. If we don't like it, BYE BYE!

    6.5 on Briere, and 5.7 on Bryz. But no need to buy-out Briere this season or next. Wait until his last year and we need the money for Giroux and the kids. Give them another year to develop before putting the team directly on thier shoulders.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post
    6.5 on Briere, and 5.7 on Bryz. But no need to buy-out Briere this season or next. Wait until his last year and we need the money for Giroux and the kids. Give them another year to develop before putting the team directly on thier shoulders.
    A lot of that depends on Briere's production and what else is out there in FA in the next two off-seasons, doesn't it? Plus, I thought that the amnesty was only in play this offseason:

    No players may be bought out during the shortened season, though they must be bought out prior to the 2013-14 season. Buyouts will cost two-thirds of what's remaining on a player's deal. For Bryzgalov, that would mean approximately $22.77 million to buy out the remaining 7 years of his deal.
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/f...ladelphia.html

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_dol50 View Post
    A lot of that depends on Briere's production and what else is out there in FA in the next two off-seasons, doesn't it? Plus, I thought that the amnesty was only in play this offseason:



    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/f...ladelphia.html


    This is what I read today. And this is what makes it interesting. I dont think the Flyers are ready to have Voracek, Schenn, Couts, and Simmonds be the go to guys just yet, so unless there is someone amazing out there, keeping Briere 1 more year wont hurt. Besides even though his cap hit is 6.5 mil. Next year Briere will only be getting paid 3 million. So unless someone puts up better numbers then Briere, and/or the Flyers NEED the cap space, then its a smarter busniess decision to wait 1 more season.

    "Update January 6: Per Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet, teams will be allowed to exercise buyouts in the 2013-14 and 2014-15 offseasons only. They are also allowed to use both in one year.]"
    Last edited by Youarewrong; 01-07-2013 at 03:30 PM.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post
    This is what I read today. And this is what makes it interesting. I dont think the Flyers are ready to have Voracek, Schenn, Couts, and Simmonds be the go to guys just yet, so unless there is someone amazing out there, keeping Briere 1 more year wont hurt. Besides even though his cap hit is 6.5 mil. Next year Briere will only be getting paid 3 million. So unless someone puts up better numbers then Briere, and/or the Flyers NEED the cap space, then its a smarter busniess decision to wait 1 more season.

    "Update January 6: Per Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet, teams will be allowed to exercise buyouts in the 2013-14 and 2014-15 offseasons only. They are also allowed to use both in one year.]"
    That clears that up then. I agree that I'd only dump Briere if there was something better than him out there. I'm just saying that they should examine their options. That said, Danny's playoff numbers almost pay for themselves.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_dol50 View Post
    That clears that up then. I agree that I'd only dump Briere if there was something better than him out there. I'm just saying that they should examine their options. That said, Danny's playoff numbers almost pay for themselves.
    I agree whole heartedly. And even if there are much better options, and there should be with Getzlaf, Perry, Iginla, etc... the Flyers can't spend willy-nilly either, because they are going to need most of that money to resign Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Read, Etc....
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post
    6.5 on Briere, and 5.7 on Bryz. But no need to buy-out Briere this season or next. Wait until his last year and we need the money for Giroux and the kids. Give them another year to develop before putting the team directly on thier shoulders.
    Amnesty has to be used in the 2013-3014 season.

  12. #12
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    I dont get the 'cant use it on Pronger' thing, I think this all works out perfect for Homer

    Flyers have 3.5 million in space right now with Pronger still on the normal roster.... theres really no need to place him on LTIR this season... sure it would give you a total of 8.5 million in space with this years 70 million cap... but not for long. Cap is going down by 6 million anyway, so any deals done with Prongers LTIR space would be pointless.

    Makes it ideal to eat his 4.9 million on the roster this season, and do the amnesty this offseason. That will allow for his salary to not become an issue on day 1 of every season. Because unless theres high paid players that are waiver excluded, his salary is a big problem.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
    I dont get the 'cant use it on Pronger' thing, I think this all works out perfect for Homer

    Flyers have 3.5 million in space right now with Pronger still on the normal roster.... theres really no need to place him on LTIR this season... sure it would give you a total of 8.5 million in space with this years 70 million cap... but not for long. Cap is going down by 6 million anyway, so any deals done with Prongers LTIR space would be pointless.

    Makes it ideal to eat his 4.9 million on the roster this season, and do the amnesty this offseason. That will allow for his salary to not become an issue on day 1 of every season. Because unless theres high paid players that are waiver excluded, his salary is a big problem.
    I agree..... Cant we just put Pronger on the regular roster and then Amnesty him or does he have to be on the regular roster for a certain period of time? Personally I see a very good reason in using Amnesty on Pronger as he most likely never plays again so we get nothing out of his remaining contract. Bryzgalov might not have a very team friendly contract but at least he can play and even though he was shaky last year he had several good stretches that offer a little bit of hope that given a bit more time he could pan out. I also don't see the point of using Amnesty on Briere either until we need his cap space to resign the young core (Giroux, Couts, Schenn, etc) or something better comes along that we need the cap space for like a franchise d-man.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    I agree..... Cant we just put Pronger on the regular roster and then Amnesty him or does he have to be on the regular roster for a certain period of time? Personally I see a very good reason in using Amnesty on Pronger as he most likely never plays again so we get nothing out of his remaining contract. Bryzgalov might not have a very team friendly contract but at least he can play and even though he was shaky last year he had several good stretches that offer a little bit of hope that given a bit more time he could pan out. I also don't see the point of using Amnesty on Briere either until we need his cap space to resign the young core (Giroux, Couts, Schenn, etc) or something better comes along that we need the cap space for like a franchise d-man.
    LTIR players have to undergo a medical exam at training camp. I imagine the exam goes both ways: a player can't be placed on LTIR unless he's deemed injured, nor can he be removed if he's already on the list and clearly can't return to hockey activity.

    You canít use a buyout on an injured player on long-term injured reserve (LITR), such as Pronger. All players on LTIR are required to attend camp to be medically evaluated.
    http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...709&feedID=704

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_dol50 View Post
    LTIR players have to undergo a medical exam at training camp. I imagine the exam goes both ways: a player can't be placed on LTIR unless he's deemed injured, nor can he be removed if he's already on the list and clearly can't return to hockey activity.



    http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...709&feedID=704
    In this case I guess Briere is probably the best option but as mentioned above only at the point where we need his cap space to either resign the core of the team or if a player of a larger need becomes available and we need that space to make it work. I believe the first scenario doesn't occur until the second buyout eligible season in which case the Flyers would have to eat very little of his contract.

    As for Bryzgalov, I would only be comfortable with using amnesty on him if an equal or better option was available at a lower cost. Although he might be a head case and doesn't do much to help his own cause I feel a lot of the blame that was placed on Bryz last year had more to do with a weak defensive unit hanging him out to dry which resulted in everyone getting on his case and finally him shutting down mentally. I also feel that although there might have been a lot of lows when it came to Bryz last year there was just as many highs (he did go on an incredible streak late in the year). Personally I think I still need to give him another year before I am on board with giving him amnesty. I think even in that case for me it would need to come to either having an equal or better option at a lower cost or needing his cap hit to keep the core intacked.

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