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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    This is where we differ greatly in opinion. Luongo is not a salary dump. He is a great piece relegated to just a good piece because of the longevity of the cap hit. Not because of real world dollars which have been mostly paid out already by the Canucks. I honestly don't think the leafs care about the cap hit, especially when playoffs equal more money. Luongo would be amazing for Toronto and his value is being downplayed immensely.
    It's not so much that it's being downplayed its that you refuse to look at his contract as a negative lol. It's not so much what toronto is willing to take on in terms of salary, it's what Toronto releaves Vancouver of in way of contractual obligations in dollar amount. No team can have a 5million dollar backup goalie. Otherwise you wouldn't be looking to trade Luongo

    And I never said Kadri fills a C spot I said Bozak does

    Like I said before....IF a deal is made with the leafs....I'd love to know ypur opinion as to what you would expect/want in return

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    This is where we differ greatly in opinion. Luongo is not a salary dump. He is a great piece relegated to just a good piece because of the longevity of the cap hit. Not because of real world dollars which have been mostly paid out already by the Canucks. I honestly don't think the leafs care about the cap hit, especially when playoffs equal more money. Luongo would be amazing for Toronto and his value is being downplayed immensely.
    Like a few of the more honest media in Toronto have said lately, they haven't even had a sniff of talent like Luongo's since they had Belfour or Cujo. He would actually give credibility to a franchise that desperately needs it. That's what happened here in Vancouver when he arrived in the weak years right after the WC Express were at their peak. He took a really mediocre Nonis team and took it places it had no place getting to. Nonis will probably do what he did here, which is to build out from goal. Great goalie, good defence, medium offence. Thing is, I don't want the Canucks to be the ones giving him an elite goalie at desperation prices. I'd much rather amnesty him than trade him that way. So, Toronto's gloating over Luongo's "horrible contract" might just backfire on them.

    Plus, sport is a funny thing. Who's to say that Luongo won't make Schneider expendable this year?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Like a few of the more honest media in Toronto have said lately, they haven't even had a sniff of talent like Luongo's since they had Belfour or Cujo. He would actually give credibility to a franchise that desperately needs it. That's what happened here in Vancouver when he arrived in the weak years right after the WC Express were at their peak. He took a really mediocre Nonis team and took it places it had no place getting to. Nonis will probably do what he did here, which is to build out from goal. Great goalie, good defence, medium offence. Thing is, I don't want the Canucks to be the ones giving him an elite goalie at desperation prices. I'd much rather amnesty him than trade him that way. So, Toronto's gloating over Luongo's "horrible contract" might just backfire on them.

    Plus, sport is a funny thing. Who's to say that Luongo won't make Schneider expendable this year?
    Would you rather Gillis use one of his two buyouts on Luongo and get nothing in return or trade him for some young talent (albeit for the sake of making a trade)?

    I think the only thing here is how teams perceive Luongo's future value. At the age of 40 will Luongo be worth the cap hit? That is what is depressing his value.

    Would you pay $750,000 for a $750,000 home thinking that in 5-6 years that home will be worth $500,000 (Luongo)

    or

    would you pay $400,000 for a $450,000 with a reasonable expectation the home will be worth $600,000 in the same 5-6 years (Schneider)?

    It will be interesting to see what happens in the next week.

  4. #34
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    Luongo has absolutely no value - NADA!!!
    This has nothing to do with Luongo's skill set and everything to do with his ago (34 in a few months) and contract (10 more years). He will be long retired and still costing some sucker NHL franchise 2.1ish mill per season against their cap. Not to mention that he may only be top notch for another couple seasons - then you get stuck with 7-8yrs of cap hit on a worthless goaltender.

    Mass majority of Leaf fans want to have nothing to do with Luongo's contract and are hoping Bell/Rogers aren't complete idiots and give anything more then a bag of hockey pucks for him.
    Please Vancouver, please keep him.

  5. #35
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    How would he cost the team anything when he retires? That only applies if you sign a new contract after a certain age, I think 34, I could be wrong.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjago View Post
    Luongo has absolutely no value - NADA!!!
    This has nothing to do with Luongo's skill set and everything to do with his ago (34 in a few months) and contract (10 more years). He will be long retired and still costing some sucker NHL franchise 2.1ish mill per season against their cap. Not to mention that he may only be top notch for another couple seasons - then you get stuck with 7-8yrs of cap hit on a worthless goaltender.

    Mass majority of Leaf fans want to have nothing to do with Luongo's contract and are hoping Bell/Rogers aren't complete idiots and give anything more then a bag of hockey pucks for him.
    Please Vancouver, please keep him.
    How cute...Leafs fans don't want an elite goalie...Of course, who are we to judge a fan base who hasn't seen their team in the playoffs in nearly a decade? If they want to keep missing the playoffs with their average goalies, then so be it. We can actually trade Luongo to a team with a fan base who will actually respect him for being the elite goalie he is.

    Also, since elite players age 33 or older have no value, can we trade some AHL players to get Marty St. Louis, Marian Hossa, Joe Thornton, and a few others. If I knew these guys had no trade value, I would have called Gillis long before the lockout, and told him to throw so AHL crap at teams for these guys.

    I love ignorance. I love it so much.
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  7. #37
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    Man you Canuck fans are really bent outta shape. Every leaf poster said that Luo is elite but the contract is not worth it. The two big positives with his contract was his low cap hit and the "wink-wink" retirement agreement, the latter has been eliminated. Luo will be on the books for the length of his contract unless he is put on LTIR.

    Buy him out for all i care, i personally want no part of that contract and would rather see Nonis use the draft picks and build, and judging by a lot of Leafs fan feedback, the majority finally agree.

    Gillis will either choose to trade him for a package that is way below Luongo talent level (bozak, kadri), lives with him, or buys him out. Buying him out would be the only bad move, you just gives teams like Toronto, with unlimited funds and lot's of cap space, the chance to get him for nothing.

    Bozak and Kadri might not seem like a lot to you guys but no one is giving you top specs/ impact roster players to take on 9 years of Luo.
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    We've been through tough times, man.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeifer View Post
    How would he cost the team anything when he retires? That only applies if you sign a new contract after a certain age, I think 34, I could be wrong.
    You should read the new "luongo rule" that has been put in place (it's not actually called that but all the experts are calling it that because Luo is the poster boy for it).

    Read Elliot Freidman lastest piece. Any team that trades for him will have at least $2.1m on the cap for every year Luo has left on his deal (if he retires early). However, if you keep him it's only $2M so thats a plus i guess.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptiMized View Post
    Man you Canuck fans are really bent outta shape. Every leaf poster said that Luo is elite but the contract is not worth it.
    Not true at all. Several posters in the Leafs forum have been saying they don't want Luongo period.

    Buy him out for all i care, i personally want no part of that contract and would rather see Nonis use the draft picks and build, and judging by a lot of Leafs fan feedback, the majority finally agree.
    That's good. Probably best for everyone. Having a few poor quality Burke players isn't going to help anyone.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptiMized View Post
    You should read the new "luongo rule" that has been put in place (it's not actually called that but all the experts are calling it that because Luo is the poster boy for it).

    Read Elliot Freidman lastest piece. Any team that trades for him will have at least $2.1m on the cap for every year Luo has left on his deal (if he retires early). However, if you keep him it's only $2M so thats a plus i guess.
    What you don't realize is that taking on players that the Canucks can't use is worthless to the club. What's the point of taking on players you know you can't use. Kadri could never crack the top 2 lines of a contender and we already have too many Bozak type players.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Not true at all. Several posters in the Leafs forum have been saying they don't want Luongo period.



    That's good. Probably best for everyone. Having a few poor quality Burke players isn't going to help anyone.
    like who? Ninjago was one of the more extreme posters on this subject and he pretty clearly said that "this has nothing to do with his talent and everything to do about the contract"

    Everyother Leaf poster has been for it, i used to be for it (even with first or Gardiner) but the contract just gets worse and worse.

    Say what you will about Burke but he's put some pretty solid pieces in place for both our franchises, no GM is perfect, but i find it funny how Vancouver fans seem to take shots at Burke whenever they can or maybe that's just out of some weird Leafs hatred.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptiMized View Post
    like who? Ninjago was one of the more extreme posters on this subject and he pretty clearly said that "this has nothing to do with his talent and everything to do about the contract"

    Everyother Leaf poster has been for it, i used to be for it (even with first or Gardiner) but the contract just gets worse and worse.

    Say what you will about Burke but he's put some pretty solid pieces in place for both our franchises, no GM is perfect, but i find it funny how Vancouver fans seem to take shots at Burke whenever they can or maybe that's just out of some weird Leafs hatred.
    Dude I went to U of T and lived and worked there for 12 years, cheering for the Leafs all the time. I have no problem with the Leafs, just frustrations with Burke's underwhelming "talent". The Sedins were a no brainer, Kesler has been frustrating, Bieksa is pretty good, but way too many Nathan Smiths, Fedor Fedorovs, Kirill Koltsovs, and unfortunately a few too many contract disputes with rookies like RJ Umberger. His Leafs picks are worse.

    And I'm not looking up the thread about Luongo but I read a ton of "choker" comments in there. It's BS. Luongo is an elite talent and Leafs fans have spent so much energy denigrating him because of his supposed "choking" and his contract that I think the fit would be horrible even if the Leafs had the talent to offer in a trade. Basically a Leafs fan's only real argument is "well he's not worth anything because of that contract so you're lucky to get anything at all".
    Last edited by ink; 01-14-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    What you don't realize is that taking on players that the Canucks can't use is worthless to the club. What's the point of taking on players you know you can't use. Kadri could never crack the top 2 lines of a contender and we already have too many Bozak type players.
    That's fair but you would be crazy to think Bozak and Kadri have no value, you'd be even crazier to think that a buy-out provides you more value. Bozak is pretty decent and you guys could use him on you second line as Kesler heals up, he's not ideal but serviceable. Bozak played pretty well here when given the shot (this is hard for me to admit).

    Hypothetically, don't you think Bozak and kadri could be flipped? Maybe for a Brendan Morrow at the dealine (a guy i think you could use, and has been linked to you guys), that certainly helps you IMO. Bozak and Kadri might not hold much value in your eyes but to a young team that wants to build their talent up and take a chance on a talent like Kadri, they could be a pretty decent starter for a playoff rental.

    A good GM always gets the most outta of what they can in a trade, and i think Gillis will do this but he won't get a whole lot more than what we've been talking about. If you ask me right now i would include Gardiner in a Luo trade, why? because he is suffering from a concussion and i'm worried about his health going forward but the only thing that keeps me from going 100% in is the need to build through the draft.

  14. #44
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    Post Lockout news: Gillis needs a C and a backup Goalie -- Luongo likely traded

    Both the Canucks and Leafs fired Burke. Both teams need to go in another direction when it comes to talent.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Dude I went to U of T and lived and worked there for 12 years, cheering for the Leafs all the time. I have no problem with the Leafs, just frustrations with Burke's underwhelming "talent". The Sedins were a no brainer, Kesler has been frustrating, Bieksa is pretty good, but way too many Nathan Smiths, Fedor Fedorovs, Kirill Koltsovs, and unfortunately a few too many contract disputes with rookies like RJ Umberger. His Leafs picks are worse.

    And I'm not looking up the thread about Luongo but I read a ton of "choker" comments in there. It's BS. Luongo is an elite talent and Leafs fans have spent so much energy denigrating him because of his supposed "choking" and his contract that I think the fit would be horrible even if the Leafs had the talent to offer in a trade. Basically a Leafs fan's only real argument is "well he's not worth anything because of that contract so you're lucky to get anything at all".
    Burke has made bad moves, very few GM's haven't , but let's be real here: Burke got you guys your Sedins with the biggest sell job in NHL draft history. He isn't the sole reason you guys are where you are, Nonis jumped in and got you Luo, sprinkle in a little Gillis and there is your Presidents Trophy team x2.

    And the choker comments aren't just from leaf fans, i'd argue they are mostly from Vancouver fans (not on this forum per se but i have a lot of Vancouver- Born friends and family and they stand him). Doesn't matter though because the choker claims aren't even factual, the guy is elite but how long he remains that way is a big ?. The fact that is impossible to ignore is the contract, nothing can make that better (the CBA actually made it worse) and will not go away.

    I may not be able to word this properly but here goes:
    Van fans will talk up Luongo and focus on the positive and everyone trying to get him will focus on the negative to drive price, problem is the positive only helps a team that acquires him because you guys have basically given Schneider the #1 role and Luos value is wasted on the bench. The negative however, impacts you guys more than the positive as long as you keep Schnieder (i've said before my preference would be to trade Cory). Contrary to what Gillis says, he is in a tight spot and will need to make a decision (every option is tough).

    You guys might think a buyout benefits you and gives you leverage in a deal but it doesn't, every team knows this is a ticking timebomb and will very likely go off (just re-watched TDKR, sorry) sometime in the span of a year and a half. MLSE knows Leaf fans will still be here, win or lose, but if the same pattern keeps consistent (adding aging pieces that hamper our ability to build through the draft) they will not be there.

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