Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





View Poll Results: Which Raptors player most often attempts get outside of his game too much?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Alan Anderson

    7 43.75%
  • Ed Davis

    1 6.25%
  • Kyle Lowry

    1 6.25%
  • DeMar DeRozan

    1 6.25%
  • Terrence Ross

    0 0%
  • Amir Johnson

    3 18.75%
  • Other (post in thread)

    3 18.75%
Page 26 of 26 FirstFirst ... 16242526
Results 376 to 387 of 387
  1. #376
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,772
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    I responded with the post saying he doesn't have to guess, Bargnani played in game 1.

    1st game, away, 108 points - 2nd game, home, 104

    1st game, OKC 46-37, 8 offensive - 2nd game, OKC 41-31, 12 offensive

    1st game, points in paint, OKC 47-34 - 2nd game, OKC 46-32

    1st game, Bargnani 16 & 6 (4-15) in 26mins - 2nd game, Davis 4 & 3 (2-7) in 33mins

    Though I agree every game takes it's own shape, the numbers show no improvement on the boards or in the paint & Davis certainly didn't put up better individual numbers to make claim if Bargnani was playing they would be worse off..


    IMO the difference from game 1 to game 2 is mainly the production from SF, more specifically AA.

    Game 1, AA, Fields, McGuire combined for 12 points on 16 shots in 48 mins

    Game 2, AA alone put up 27 points (10-14) in 30mins, 17 points in the 2nd quarter, in which he was unconscious. If not for Anderson getting hot this game is not close at the half.

    In short, Davis has a poor game, Anderson has a big game & the response is it's a good thing Bargnani wasn't playing...
    you are missing the point entirely. you admit that each game unfolds differently but are using a single game to make your point.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #377
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto, On
    Posts
    32,470
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    It's hard to discuss these things with you because you're all over the place with your criticisms not to mention the fact that a large part of them are quite reactionary.

    Calderon shot 4/8 and dished out 11 assists. Anderson scored 27 points on 14 shots. Ross rolled his ankle. Demar played like **** both offensively and defensively. Was he really going to leave these guys out?

    Even if Demar or Ross played, would it have made a difference? I severely doubt it. Demar is one of our worst perimeter defenders (opponents have more than 50% on isolation attempts tracked by synergy) and although Ross is quite a step up from Demar (48th best defender according to synergy), he's quite a step down from either Lowry or Calderon, offensively. In fact, he's probably our most inefficient player since the majority of his shots are long 2s in which he averages 23%.

    Are we going to ***** about his rotations on every loss that we have without even thinking now?
    No because we **** about rotations even when we loss. Win or loss I've been on Casey's *** for rotations all year long because its literally the one big flaw he has as a coach and stopping him from being a top notch coach.

    Do you ever see the Lakers using Steve Nash and Steve Blake on the court the same time?
    Do you see the Thunder using Westbrook and Reggie Jackson/Maynor on the court at the same time?
    Do you ever see Chalmers and Norris Cole on the court at the same time for large portions of time??
    Do you ever see Tony Parker and Gary Neal/Patty Mills on the court at the same time??
    Damian Lillard and Nolan Smith??

    Also how am I going in circles? I said something and haven't strayed away from my argument

    Heck he didn't even have to play Derozan or Ross, he could've put Anderson at the 2 and brought in Fields or something who atleast isn't defensively inept.

    Why don't you gimme Calderon's synergy numbers two guarding 2's and 1's?? Derozan was playing crap defensively?? Ya lets remember that one cross over Durant had on him and automatically assume he played bad lol..He did a really solid job on Martin, who was 1 for 6 from 3 and shot 42% from the game, so Demar was doing something right.

    Calderon shot 4 for 8 but wasn't even as good as his numbers suggest. Did you even watch the game? He had miscommunication problems on hand offs, we weren't getting good looks consistently and his PnR game wasn't working. When his PnR game isn't working Calderon is practically useless because he's not capable of creating for himself and scoring consistently. We can't depend on him offensively to do that, whcih is why someone like Derozan or Ross would've been beneficial.

    When were facing elite teams, who play tough nose defense and calls from the refs are hard to come by Calderon should not only not start but shouldn't be playing the 2 spot of all things to boot. It's a piss poor idea that has not even proven to work this year yet.

    You take Lowry play him at the 1 and play Ross/Derozan/AA at the 2 and AA/Fields at the 3 and not only are you still spreading the floor out, but you haev guys who can create offense for themselves and defend their positions solidly.


    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Game 1 with Bargnani - OKC (46 - 37) 8 offensive boards, Raptors 9.

    Game 2 without Bargnani - OKC (41 - 31) 12 offensive boards, Raptors 8
    Ya Jonas being in the game had nothing to do with these things right??

    I don't even know what your trying to suggest with this post, are you trying to say Bargnani is a good box out player and boards good??
    Last edited by Eagles4Lyfe; 01-07-2013 at 04:30 PM.


    2013 Mock Chicago Bulls

  3. #378
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    you are missing the point entirely. you admit that each game unfolds differently but are using a single game to make your point.
    Your missing my point. GWriter said, if Bargnani had played, OKC would have done much better

    Bargnani played & OKC didn't.

  4. #379
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post

    Ya Jonas being in the game had nothing to do with these things right??
    Of course Jonas is a factor, Amir who replaced him was 19 & 9 on 8-11 shooting, didn't exactly have a bad game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    I don't even know what your trying to suggest with this post, are you trying to say Bargnani is a good box out player and boards good??
    I'm saying everyone points to one player in the midst of an easier schedule & say he's the problem.

    I illustrate one player had no difference against the same team on the boards, in the paint & on the final score & there's extenuating variables, as to why.
    Last edited by B2B; 01-07-2013 at 04:51 PM.

  5. #380
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,772
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Your missing my point. GWriter said, if Bargnani had played, OKC would have done much better

    Bargnani played & OKC didn't.
    serenity now!!
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #381
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto, On
    Posts
    32,470
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Of course Jonas is a factor, Amir who replaced him was 19 & 9 on 8-11 shooting, didn't exactly have a bad game.



    I'm saying everyone points to one player in the midst of an easier schedule & say he's the problem & when I point out that the team did no better against the same team on the boards, in the paint & on the final score, there's extenuating variables as to why.
    I hear where your coming from, but like Ink said were one player away from being able to compete against elite teams. I thought getting Gay would be dumb cause we have Derozan, but its obvious we really need him for our team.

    Also I know there isn't much stock put into +- number but go look at the first meeting against OKC and then you'll understand what a lot of people mean.

    Your also not factoring in how in effective he is offensively, whereas guys like ED, Amir, Jonas are more efficient and get their points within the offense.


    2013 Mock Chicago Bulls

  7. #382
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    serenity now!!

  8. #383
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,542
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    No because we **** about rotations even when we loss. Win or loss I've been on Casey's *** for rotations all year long because its literally the one big flaw he has as a coach and stopping him from being a top notch coach.

    Do you ever see the Lakers using Steve Nash and Steve Blake on the court the same time?
    Do you see the Thunder using Westbrook and Reggie Jackson/Maynor on the court at the same time?
    Do you ever see Chalmers and Norris Cole on the court at the same time for large portions of time??
    Do you ever see Tony Parker and Gary Neal/Patty Mills on the court at the same time??
    Damian Lillard and Nolan Smith??

    Also how am I going in circles? I said something and haven't strayed away from my argument

    Heck he didn't even have to play Derozan or Ross, he could've put Anderson at the 2 and brought in Fields or something who atleast isn't defensively inept.

    Why don't you gimme Calderon's synergy numbers two guarding 2's and 1's?? Derozan was playing crap defensively?? Ya lets remember that one cross over Durant had on him and automatically assume he played bad lol..He did a really solid job on Martin, who was 1 for 6 from 3 and shot 42% from the game, so Demar was doing something right.

    Calderon shot 4 for 8 but wasn't even as good as his numbers suggest. Did you even watch the game? He had miscommunication problems on hand offs, we weren't getting good looks consistently and his PnR game wasn't working. When his PnR game isn't working Calderon is practically useless because he's not capable of creating for himself and scoring consistently. We can't depend on him offensively to do that, whcih is why someone like Derozan or Ross would've been beneficial.

    When were facing elite teams, who play tough nose defense and calls from the refs are hard to come by Calderon should not only not start but shouldn't be playing the 2 spot of all things to boot. It's a piss poor idea that has not even proven to work this year yet.

    You take Lowry play him at the 1 and play Ross/Derozan/AA at the 2 and AA/Fields at the 3 and not only are you still spreading the floor out, but you haev guys who can create offense for themselves and defend their positions solidly.
    When you are severely lacking talent in your wing positions and your two best offensive players are pgs,a two pg line up is optimal. It's used all the time on teams that lack wing depth.

    Prior to this season, Rick Adelman routinely played Rubio/Ridnour together.

    Prior to their drafting of Kawhi Leonard, Pop played Parker and Hill/Parker and
    Neal and when Parker got injured, Hill/Neal. Even to this season, it's still quite a popular lineup (Parker/Neal).

    When Butler was out all year? Carlisle played Kidd/Terry, Barea/Terry, Beaubois/Kidd.

    When Houston lost Tracey? Adelman played Brooks/Lowry.

    I don't know why you think it's exclusively Casey. Think of any team that weak at the wing positions and you'll see two guard lineups. Here's another one, who did the Bulls play the most next to Rose prior to their acquisition of John Salmons?
    Last edited by Freakazoid; 01-07-2013 at 05:04 PM.

  9. #384
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    I hear where your coming from, but like Ink said were one player away from being able to compete against elite teams. I thought getting Gay would be dumb cause we have Derozan, but its obvious we really need him for our team.

    Also I know there isn't much stock put into +- number but go look at the first meeting against OKC and then you'll understand what a lot of people mean.

    Your also not factoring in how in effective he is offensively, whereas guys like ED, Amir, Jonas are more efficient and get their points within the offense.
    I watched both games, the difference IMO is chemistry. This can't fall all on one player. Lots of things went wrong early from the refs, Lowry getting injured, to Fields not producing etc....

    I have a hard time excepting people pointing the finger at one player for the start of this season & fully acknowledge Bargnani has been a disappointment.

  10. #385
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    cardboard box
    Posts
    6,462
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    I watched both games, the difference IMO is chemistry. This can't fall all on one player. Lots of things went wrong early from the refs, Lowry getting injured, to Fields not producing etc....

    I have a hard time excepting people pointing the finger at one player for the start of this season & fully acknowledge Bargnani has been a disappointment.
    exactly. i defend bargnani in terms that he can't be the sole reason for our record but no one is making excuses this season for bargnani's downfalls

    we all know how the first 10 games were with the officiating

    again we had an injured plague season

    and yet it is bargnani's fault...

  11. #386
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    49,851
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    I watched both games, the difference IMO is chemistry. This can't fall all on one player. Lots of things went wrong early from the refs, Lowry getting injured, to Fields not producing etc....

    I have a hard time excepting people pointing the finger at one player for the start of this season & fully acknowledge Bargnani has been a disappointment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Byronicle View Post
    exactly. i defend bargnani in terms that he can't be the sole reason for our record but no one is making excuses this season for bargnani's downfalls

    we all know how the first 10 games were with the officiating

    again we had an injured plague season

    and yet it is bargnani's fault...
    Scapegoating is easier and so much more fun. lol.

  12. #387
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    12,296
    vCash
    1500
    Still think the title says it all. We needed everyone clicking on all cylinders for a win in this one. Didn't happen.

Page 26 of 26 FirstFirst ... 16242526

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •