David Lee's Flagrant on Blake Griffin

[JLynn943]

Nope, I know the context of my words, the clarification was for you. If you want to ignore it then you can come to any conclusion you want, sadly clarifications are for moments with these sort of disconnects. The push is equal to the push applied, that fact still holds true within my rationale.

Not your original statement of any push having a profound effect.

False, a grounded player has the advantage of resistance, a player in midflight is in a much more vulnerable position. Thus the flagrant. As weak as that push may look, you have to remember the player is in the air and has no way of resisting said push. The laws of physics allow for this because resistance/friction exists, which is what I was comparing by mentioning his mid-flight take off.

You're trying to refute what I'm saying by arguing an entirely different point. I'm not saying (nor have I said) that being on the ground isn't an advantage. I'm saying that your statement of a profound effect on forward momentum from "ANY" push is incorrect. In that statement, you were not comparing anything to my understanding.

Im still waiting for you to prove its incorrect. Again, the player was in MIDFLIGHT. The point of me mentioning that is to focus on the difference between someone who is or isnt grounded. Thus the comparison is profoundly different.

So you're changing what was "profound" to the difference? Not the effect that "ANY" push would have in mid-air?

A push of any kind on a player in midflight will have a much stronger influence than someone who is grounded. Its called resistance, thats why its having a profound effect on his forward momentum. Its why he had a hard time landing. I agree with the math, if the force of the push was any more than that then it would have been equally worse. Thats why he was only assessed a Flagrant 1.

I agree 100%, but that isn't what I'm arguing. You said any push will have a profound effect. The change in the momentum of the player cannot be any greater than the applied momentum

Feel free to continue ignoring my point but if you choose to continue this discussion I will not waste time explaining it all to you again, I will simply revert to JB style copy and pasting.

I'm not ignoring your point - I'm waiting for you to respond with something relevant. Copy and paste away and I'll do the same.

[Chronz]

You're trying to refute what I'm saying by arguing an entirely different point. I'm not saying (nor have I said) that being on the ground isn't an advantage. I'm saying that your statement of a profound effect on forward momentum from "ANY" push is incorrect. In that statement, you were not comparing anything to my understanding.

Which is why I clarified my stance to YOU, when mentioning in my OP that the player was in MID-AIR, I was making the assumption that the poster would understand the scope of my argument, which from his response seems to be the case. I was emphasizing it for a reason. The comparison was made, I apologize if that wasn't clear enough for you to begin with but again, thats why I clarified my position. You seem to be on this crusade to expose misuse of proper terminologies but the idea I am trying to convey is sound. If it makes you feel any better, you could have worded it better than I could have with your understanding of physics. Hopefully that gets you off my case.

So you're changing what was "profound" to the difference? Not the effect that "ANY" push would have in mid-air?

Now you lost me.

Im not changing anything, the force of that push is profoundly different for a player that is in MID-AIR as opposed to a player on the ground.

Thats the message I was trying to convey, sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you but you were not its intended recipient.

[tredigs]

Thankfully this is the first highlight I saw of that games abomination, but that was clearly a pathetic and preventative flagrant ruling. Nothing about that play was "flagrant", but in another world where he actually used force to push Blake off his center of gravity causing a potentially bad fall, this would have been a dirty/flagrant act.

However I don't see much of a difference here between this and any of the innumerable pushes in the lower back that we see when somebody's trying to steal a board under the basket to the rising rebounder. I've never seen that called a flagrant before, so I'll just assume that Blake's star status and the fact that he was moving forward rather than just up were the difference makers here.

Regardless, not a play D. Lee needs to be making, but I'd like to think he is smart enough not to knock him off center to the point that Blake would actually take a serious tumble. Which was the case here, where Blake received the equivalent of a pat on the back.

And I haven't followed this thread at all, but 15 pages? Really?

[Chronz]

Thankfully this is the first highlight I saw of that games abomination, but that was clearly a pathetic and preventative flagrant ruling. Nothing about that play was "flagrant", but in another world where he actually used force to push Blake off his center of gravity causing a potentially bad fall, this would have been a dirty/flagrant act.

To be more precise, in THAT world, the act would have been a flagrant 2 and most definitely a suspension. Instead of this run of the mill flagrant, the kind Lee admits willing to unleash in place of a dunk.

However I don't see much of a difference here between this and any of the innumerable pushes in the lower back that we see when somebody's trying to steal a board under the basket. I've never seen that called a flagrant before, so I'll just assume that Blake's star status and the fact that he was moving forward rather than just up were the difference makers here.

Forward momentum FTW. Not sure how much it matters but Im pretty sure the NBA treats these fouls differently.

[Clippersfan86]

Tredigs another thing you forgot to mention is Blake Griffin has been taking cheapshots his entire career (leads the NBA in flagrants taken by a decent margin over Lebron every year so far). The NBA watches very closely with Blake because a lot of teams will just straight up tackle him to prevent dunks and it's caused a lot of fights and drama they want out of the game.

[kylem4711]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSlszw4WEgk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

ha