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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC27 View Post
    hibbert is the MAIN reason Indiana is a elite defensive team. we didnt try to sign him so he could go off for 20 points a game! but to anchor the paint, stats that do not necessarily show up in the box score. If i were olshey, i would do it all over again. with him i think we would be the 4th seed right now.
    I still maintain he is not a max money level game changer. Indiana will find that out the hard way.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
    My fanbase is growing.

  2. #17
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    overpaid yes. But he has been their defense anchor and that is a huge asset to any team. 95 DRTG so far this season

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Mopp View Post
    overpaid yes. But he has been their defense anchor and that is a huge asset to any team. 95 DRTG so far this season
    Sorry but don't need to be an offensive monster to be worth a max. I do not believe he is over rated or overpaid.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I still maintain he is not a max money level game changer. Indiana will find that out the hard way.
    What center, right now, plays better defense? and dont just count stats. you can say ibaka, and thats about it, but i would still take hibbert over ibaka. You cant teach height, and you sure cant teach IQ, Athleticism and height all together.
    Last edited by RC27; 01-08-2013 at 01:17 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC27 View Post
    What center, right now, plays better defense? and dont just count stats. you can say ibaka, and thats about it, but i would still take hibbert over ibaka. You cant teach height, and you sure cant teach IQ, Athleticism and height all together.
    Is that because he's that good at defense or because the Center position is absolutely dreadful overall?

    I look at impact relative to all players production, not impact relative to position.

    Hibbert is not a Top 20 player. Is he a Top 50 player in the league? Yes. That is a big gap. And to pay someone whose impact is nowhere near at least 25 other guys' a max contract is a bad move.

    Even on our team as currently constructed, he'd be what, the 3rd or 4th most valuable player on the team (behind LMA, Lillard, and Batum). Do you pay 4th most valuable guys max money?
    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
    My fanbase is growing.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen View Post
    Sorry but don't need to be an offensive monster to be worth a max. I do not believe he is over rated or overpaid.
    Lol...almost everyone on a max contract is overpaid (you can argue). Especially with the way the cap is managed and such. However they are at market price. Look at Batum...before the contract almost everyone said he was overpaid. I believe that many teams would have offered him that type of contract if they had the money or sensed he would sign. This makes him at his market value but overpaid in onlookers eyes.

    I believe that he is meeting expectations---not breaking them but meeting them. 1 of 5 reasons we are playing as good as we are.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Is that because he's that good at defense or because the Center position is absolutely dreadful overall?

    I look at impact relative to all players production, not impact relative to position.

    Hibbert is not a Top 20 player. Is he a Top 50 player in the league? Yes. That is a big gap. And to pay someone whose impact is nowhere near at least 25 other guys' a max contract is a bad move.

    Even on our team as currently constructed, he'd be what, the 3rd or 4th most valuable player on the team (behind LMA, Lillard, and Batum). Do you pay 4th most valuable guys max money?
    i didnt realize centers only directly impact other centers on defense? no. it is irrelevant if there are no outstanding offensive of centers in the league, he impacts the WHOLE court. Fact is, you over pay for centers, everyone does it, because they can shut you down. to be honest, i would trade batum straight up for him, i would value hibbert more than batum. and a lot of teams pay max for your 3rd best player.

    And it works both ways. Aldridge is obviously worth a max... and he doesnt have one. Mathews is definitely worth more than 6 million...etc etc.

    and i guess Olshey and pritchard would agree with me.
    Last edited by RC27; 01-08-2013 at 11:21 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC27 View Post
    i didnt realize centers only directly impact other centers on defense? no. it is irrelevant if there are no outstanding offensive of centers in the league, he impacts the WHOLE court. Fact is, you over pay for centers, everyone does it, because they can shut you down. to be honest, i would trade batum straight up for him, i would value hibbert more than batum. and a lot of teams pay max for your 3rd best player.

    And it works both ways. Aldridge is obviously worth a max... and he doesnt have one. Mathews is definitely worth more than 6 million...etc etc.

    and i guess Olshey and pritchard would agree with me.
    A lot of GMs agree on overpaying Centers... that's why there's a lot of mediocre teams.

    Hibbert is averaging 9.7 PPG on 40% shooting. That is abysmal. Looking at his advanced stats we see more troubling signs.

    HIs PER is 14.7. His Trb% is 16.2%. HIs Ortg is 94 and his OWS is actually -0.4.

    Heck, even after last years good season I didn't think he was a max money type player and until he even approaches that season again in terms of play he's definitely not worth max money.

    If he were defensively as good as Ben Wallace or Kevin Garnett or even Tyson Chandler then it might be worth it. He's a very good defender who is not a "turn your team into championship caliber defense" by himself type player and his offense has been abysmal this season.

    I'm glad we passed for that kind of money. And if you think I'm being harsh, consider everything you said Hibbert can do for a team in terms of overall team defense. Now try picturing Indiana as anything other than a 2nd round playoff exit for the forseeable future. I can't, can you?
    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
    My fanbase is growing.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    A lot of GMs agree on overpaying Centers... that's why there's a lot of mediocre teams.

    Hibbert is averaging 9.7 PPG on 40% shooting. That is abysmal. Looking at his advanced stats we see more troubling signs.

    HIs PER is 14.7. His Trb% is 16.2%. HIs Ortg is 94 and his OWS is actually -0.4.

    Heck, even after last years good season I didn't think he was a max money type player and until he even approaches that season again in terms of play he's definitely not worth max money.

    If he were defensively as good as Ben Wallace or Kevin Garnett or even Tyson Chandler then it might be worth it. He's a very good defender who is not a "turn your team into championship caliber defense" by himself type player and his offense has been abysmal this season.

    I'm glad we passed for that kind of money. And if you think I'm being harsh, consider everything you said Hibbert can do for a team in terms of overall team defense. Now try picturing Indiana as anything other than a 2nd round playoff exit for the forseeable future. I can't, can you?
    Put Hibbert on this team as is and we are NBA Champions, that is worth max money. At least 10 of our L's would be W's if we had Hibbert, and his numbers would be astronomically better. Pacers screwed him over, KP screwed him over.

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