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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anji View Post
    Do you guys really believe Shumps is better than JR Smith??? Because the way some of you post, I think you do.

    In my reality though, JR Smith is the second best player on the team. Did Shumpert show anything close to what JR is doing in his short rookie campaign???
    I absolutely do. But I can see why people don't.

    But even now, he's a made for the bench player. Not consistent enough from 3

    8 great games, and a good stretch to 12 doesn't convince me that JR is the consistent player we all hope is. Another couple of weeks like this, and I'll turn around.

    But as much effort as he gives defensively, he's not a smart defender on ball. Has way too many bad fouls, and isn't consistent enough of a 3pt shooter, or efficient enough as a scorer consistently to be considered a great 3rd option offensively ( I seriously trust a healthy Raymond more). The thing during this stretch that's impressed me isn't his scoring, it's nothing new. You give an inefficient volume shooter more minutes and more shots and points will come during certain stretches, and this is absolutely the best stretch of JR's career. But, the playmaking out of the pick and roll and decision making, the rebounding, and overall effort (even defensively, but just the effort) and selflessness is what's made him such an overall impact player. Add that to the fact that he's a capable scorer, who is making up for a lot of injuries and he's been an absolute hero for this team.

    Basically what I'm saying is JR is a wild card. Wild Cards like that are made for the bench if you have the talent to make it happen. He's a better 3pt shooter when feeding off of better players like Melo, which would point to him needing to start. However, his overall erratic play, inconsistent shooting, need for over dribbling one on one possessions to get the points he's getting (the screen and roll addition has helped with this, but it's highly visible still) through jumpshots (not so much layups) plus that whole defense thing, and he's a 6th man type wild card.

    Shump on the other hand (WHEN HEALTHY) is a flat out impact player night in and night out with his defense. I seriously think he was absolutely the best overall perimeter defender in the league last year. On ball he was amazing, but he can guard his guy and still get his hands in there to help out his teammates, and make his rotations too. Knew who to leave and who know to leave for rotations, and had great recovery. The guy was just amazing for a rookie. But when he began to round out his offensive game later in the season, and he still has a lot of rounding out to do, I can see him being a stud. I think he can be at worst a 13ppg scorer (Edit: eventually), with good playmaking ability that I also believe will develop, and his 3pt shot was improving (and if he gets that, it's a done deal for me). But, an all defensive first team performer. Stephen A says his sources say the front office believes Shump is the Knicks second best perimeter player after Melo, which is saying a lot this year.

    In reality, I guess I'm saying the difference between he and JR is that I think he has a higher BBall IQ. Hopefully, when he gets healthy he just improves upon what he has already shown. No matter if it's this year or next.

    And don't get this post wrong. I love JR, always have. I think he's very productive and always was, he just very erratic. He also plays a style where he needs the ball in his hands, which fits the 6th man role, unless he can actually becomes the knock down shooter that his talent suggests.
    Last edited by Busta; 01-06-2013 at 02:53 AM.

  2. #47
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    Question:
    Knicks - Heat. playoffs game 1. 4 min left. 83-82 Knicks up. No foul trouble, nobody playing poorly or really well that day for NY. Who is on the court?
    Anwser:
    Do you guys really believe Shumps is better than JR Smith??? Because the way some of you post, I think you do.

    In my reality though, JR Smith is the second best player on the team. Did Shumpert show anything close to what JR is doing in his short rookie campaign???
    Sorry but Shumpert doesn't hold a candle to JR as a closer. I don't care what kind of rookie stars you have in your eyes for Shumps.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anji View Post
    Question:

    Anwser:


    Sorry but Shumpert doesn't hold a candle to JR as a closer. I don't care what kind of rookie stars you have in your eyes for Shumps.
    The only place in the game Shumpert is better is 1 on 1 defense. JR is no slouch on the perimeter defense, and man he hustles. What a motor. But Shump is a better overall defender.

    Shump's offensive game is light years ahead of Brewer's. I think we're going to see a lot of Shump/JR lineups once Shump is fully acclimated.

    By reports, he may be cleared to scrimmage in the next week or so.


    My man Ike got a bad rap

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busta View Post
    I absolutely do. But I can see why people don't.

    But even now, he's a made for the bench player. Not consistent enough from 3

    8 great games, and a good stretch to 12 doesn't convince me that JR is the consistent player we all hope is. Another couple of weeks like this, and I'll turn around.

    But as much effort as he gives defensively, he's not a smart defender on ball. Has way too many bad fouls, and isn't consistent enough of a 3pt shooter, or efficient enough as a scorer consistently to be considered a great 3rd option offensively ( I seriously trust a healthy Raymond more). The thing during this stretch that's impressed me isn't his scoring, it's nothing new. You give an inefficient volume shooter more minutes and more shots and points will come during certain stretches, and this is absolutely the best stretch of JR's career. But, the playmaking out of the pick and roll and decision making, the rebounding, and overall effort (even defensively, but just the effort) and selflessness is what's made him such an overall impact player. Add that to the fact that he's a capable scorer, who is making up for a lot of injuries and he's been an absolute hero for this team.

    Basically what I'm saying is JR is a wild card. Wild Cards like that are made for the bench if you have the talent to make it happen. He's a better 3pt shooter when feeding off of better players like Melo, which would point to him needing to start. However, his overall erratic play, inconsistent shooting, need for over dribbling one on one possessions to get the points he's getting (the screen and roll addition has helped with this, but it's highly visible still) through jumpshots (not so much layups) plus that whole defense thing, and he's a 6th man type wild card.

    Shump on the other hand (WHEN HEALTHY) is a flat out impact player night in and night out with his defense. I seriously think he was absolutely the best overall perimeter defender in the league last year. On ball he was amazing, but he can guard his guy and still get his hands in there to help out his teammates, and make his rotations too. Knew who to leave and who know to leave for rotations, and had great recovery. The guy was just amazing for a rookie. But when he began to round out his offensive game later in the season, and he still has a lot of rounding out to do, I can see him being a stud. I think he can be at worst a 13ppg scorer (Edit: eventually), with good playmaking ability that I also believe will develop, and his 3pt shot was improving (and if he gets that, it's a done deal for me). But, an all defensive first team performer. Stephen A says his sources say the front office believes Shump is the Knicks second best perimeter player after Melo, which is saying a lot this year.

    In reality, I guess I'm saying the difference between he and JR is that I think he has a higher BBall IQ. Hopefully, when he gets healthy he just improves upon what he has already shown. No matter if it's this year or next.

    And don't get this post wrong. I love JR, always have. I think he's very productive and always was, he just very erratic. He also plays a style where he needs the ball in his hands, which fits the 6th man role, unless he can actually becomes the knock down shooter that his talent suggests.
    The Knicks 2nd best perimeter player is JR hands down. Nothing from last year told me Shump was on JRs caliber.

    By JRs play this year, I absolutely think he can start. I just don't think its best for the team. Nor do I think its best for JR. JR put up 18 shots last night, he's clearly our second scorer. When Melo is not on the floor, the offense goes through JR. Really could you see the offense going through Shump at this point in his career.

    Shump offers a playmaker on defense, with the talent to be an offensive presence. JR is a force on offense and not to shabby as a perimeter defender, rebounder, and playmaker.

    Shump has significant strides to make before he can be said to be as good as JR, especially the way JR is playing this season.


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  5. #50
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    The line up posted as the given for a tight game against the Heat in the playoffs in a close out situation was:
    Chandler
    Melo
    Shump,
    Kidd,
    The question marks were
    Wallace? JR? Amare??
    To that I say you are crazy if you think Shumps should be in over JR Smith, who is playing like the second best knick on the team.

    I think it's probably Crazy to think Kidd would be on the bench in the situation too.
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  6. #51
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    ^^^I actually think if Shump/Amare were at full strength, Woody would have very hard decisions to make. No doubt Chandler, Melo and Kidd have to be out there. The real question is which 2 out of 3: JR, Shump, and Amare.

    I think if Amare is full strength and acclimated to the team he has to be on the court. Between JR and Shump; against the Heat: if were down 1 and on offense we need JR. If we're up one and need defense Shump ( in this situation, I might even take out Amare for Wallace).


    My man Ike got a bad rap

  7. #52
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    Felton too.

    I think the knicks should play their best 5, unless they conflict with another player.
    My mama said pray for them ****** that hate
    They just wanna be in your place.........


    Shine on shine on shine on them ******
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anji View Post
    Felton too.

    I think the knicks should play their best 5, unless they conflict with another player.
    Felton over JKidd? He has to be hot, or I just don't see it.


    My man Ike got a bad rap

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backstabber View Post
    Felton over JKidd? He has to be hot, or I just don't see it.
    Felton over Shumps/Amare.

    The knicks best line up this season has been Felton/kidd/JR/Melo/Tyson by a wide margin. Their points per possession for and against has been stupid good at points this season. I think 1.3 to .9 at our best for and against respectively.
    My mama said pray for them ****** that hate
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    Shine on shine on shine on them ******
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  10. #55
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    Shumpert won't be himself when he comes back. He is a athletic beast but lets be honest... he will be coming off the bench to start his 2012-13 season.


  11. #56
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    I still think when Amare gets his legs and timing back he should start.. He is averaging about 8 ppg in 20 minutes of play.. And he has missed a lot of gimme's... In time he will be back to his 20 ppg average.. Just needs to get better defensively..

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnWhyKay View Post
    I still think when Amare gets his legs and timing back he should start.. He is averaging about 8 ppg in 20 minutes of play.. And he has missed a lot of gimme's... In time he will be back to his 20 ppg average.. Just needs to get better defensively..
    I think he will eventually crack the starting lineup, but it will take a while for this to occur. Like I said on another thread, it will be 15 game before Woody will start to consider him for the starting lineup. Probably joins the starting lineup at game 52-55. Giving that lineup plenty time to meld for a playoff run. By the way I think that lineup will be:

    Chandler
    Amare (won't average 20 - look at 17-7)
    Melo
    Shump
    Felton

    JR
    Kidd
    Camby
    Novak
    Wallace

    I think we go 10 deep heading towards the playoffs.
    Last edited by Backstabber; 01-06-2013 at 12:00 PM.


    My man Ike got a bad rap

  13. #58
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    Any Shumpaholics in here, i posted a new article on his update in the forum. Could be 10 days away from making his debut!!!


    The Future

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backstabber View Post
    I think he will eventually crack the starting lineup, but it will take a while for this to occur. Like I said on another thread, it will be 15 game before Woody will start to consider him for the starting lineup. Probably joins the starting lineup at game 52-55. Giving that lineup plenty time to meld for a playoff run. By the way I think that lineup will be:

    Chandler
    Amare (won't average 20 - look at 17-7)
    Melo
    Shump
    Felton

    JR
    Kidd
    Camby
    Novak
    Wallace

    I think we go 10 deep heading towards the playoffs.
    Yeah I think so too.. We may very well go ten deep.. But within that we will find minutes for Melo to play the 4 in spurts and for Stat to play the 5.. And the way we play one should be on the court at all times.. A minute in the game shouldnt go by without 1 of the 2 on the court.. Woody should stagger the minutes some..

  15. #60
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    Felton/Shump/Melo/STAT/Chandler
    Kidd/Smith/Novak/Sheed/Camby

    Prigioni and Copeland, maybe even KT in spurts. Brewer and White can sit. That starting lineup has a lot of weapons and starting Amar'e gives us a great backup front court with Sheed, Camby and Thomas. Smith is the perfect 6th man with this lineup, Kidd leads the second unit, and Novak gets his shots up playing next to Kidd, Smith and even Camby. Prigioni and Copeland will be ready to go when needed, and both have been great for us at times so far this season. Our depth will play large if we have any more injuries, and later in the season when we need to rest guys we can still compete and win games without most or all of our starters.

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