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  1. #706
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    I'd do most of those $20 million deals over again if I were a contending team.

  2. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Doubtful. Especially Lohse. They lose a draft pick if they sign either. I realize they would get someone in a trade, but draft picks are apparently like gold. personally I see no use for Lohse, but I would not mind Bourn, even with losing a pick.
    If they get Bourn, I'd be ok on them doubling-down on Lohse. The problem is that Lohse could be a big risk and they'd need to get him on a short-term deal.

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsfan365 View Post
    Yeah, I don't want Lohse and I don't think the Cubs do either. I think the answer was more geared towards Bourn. He also said he thinks Bourn signs a contract for 3 years/$42 million.
    Gosh, I would LOVE that. No way I would think we could ever get Bourn for less than 4 years.

  4. #709
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    Everyone thought Prince Fielder was going to get screwed at this point last year, too.

  5. #710
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    Michael Bourn is not Prince Fielder though. Just saying.

  6. #711
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    if we could get bourn for 3/42 or less, isnt it a no brainer?
    i gotta think, if u want to dump him at some point, u will get more than the draft pick u would lose??
    not that im big on lohse, but i would think the same would apply, if similar contract.

  7. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Gonzalez was extended to a pretty damn good deal for both sides considering what he was when he signed it. Considering his age at the time there's no reason to think his production would go down within two years, and he's still a very good player with plenty of room for a big seaaon.
    I think the extension is something he will be worth. I do NOT think he will be worth he contract PLUS the value of the prospects given up at the time. They were worth quite a bit as well. That's a hefty price to be FORCED into paying by managment. Which is why I can understand Epstein being annoyed by it. If I was doing my job exceptionally well, as well or better than arguably anyone else in the entire ****ing league I was a part of, I'd be pissy about management telling me that my way wasn't good enough.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

  8. #713
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    I think the extension is something he will be worth.
    It's nearly impossible barring disaster for him to not be worth it.

    I do NOT think he will be worth he contract PLUS the value of the prospects given up at the time.
    Casey Kelly, Andrew Cashner, and Reymond Fuentes? They'll live.

    They were worth quite a bit as well.
    Meh, less than you think.

    That's a hefty price to be FORCED into paying by managment.
    Epstein liked Gonzalez before the move.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb...don&id=5890050

    He gave up two and a half solid but not elite prospects to land a prime aged elite ML bat who was under 30. I doubt there was much hand wringing on this one.

    Which is why I can understand Epstein being annoyed by it. If I was doing my job exceptionally well, as well or better than arguably anyone else in the entire ****ing league I was a part of, I'd be pissy about management telling me that my way wasn't good enough.
    He never specifies what annoys him beyond management making him spend more to bring bigger names in. Crawford and Lackey, two big named FAs who most winced at early on, are far better candidates for him to be mad at considering the context of the two players. Adrian Gonzalez is not the kind of player that Epstein or any GM would have to be forced into looking to acquire, that was practically a gift.

  9. #714
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    Everyone though Soriano was getting screwed two days ago.

  10. #715
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    Epstein's "Oh man, everything bad that happened was forced on me by management" is a little disingenuous. His love for Gonzalez was pretty well documented. Nobody forced him to make that move.

  11. #716
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    Anthony Rizzo is not Andrew Cashner. They traded Rizzo, not Cashner. The Red Sox organization lost Rizzo, not Cashner, the fact that the Padres traded Rizzo for Cashner doesn't change that even a little. I didn't say they wouldn't live. I said I don't think A-Gon will be worth that.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

  12. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doogolas View Post
    Anthony Rizzo is not Andrew Cashner. They traded Rizzo, not Cashner. The Red Sox organization lost Rizzo, not Cashner, the fact that the Padres traded Rizzo for Cashner doesn't change that even a little. I didn't say they wouldn't live. I said I don't think A-Gon will be worth that.
    The Padres ended up with Cashner, not Rizzo.

    I think Gonzalez is well worth Kelly, Cashner, and Fuentes. An elite, prime aged bat is worth three non-elite prospects every time.

    This doesn't even touch how ridiculous it is to believe that Epstein had no interest in a 28 year old GG caliber first basemen who had been putting up 30+ HRs and 35+ 2Bs for five+ years in PetCo. THAT was forced on him? I don't believe that for a second.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 01-16-2013 at 05:33 PM.

  13. #718
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    ROFL. What happened to Rizzo is 100% irrelevant. Cashner is irrelevant. And again, you are not just talking about the prospects. You are talking about those prospects on top of a huge extension. I know you constantly say you hate how the Cubs care about money and seem to live in a world where it doesn't matter, but financial efficiency is everything in sports. It was clearly an overpay (I said this at the time when so many Cubs fans were jealous of the move). Being an overpay doesn't necessarily make it a poor move, but overall it was still an overpay.

  14. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog312 View Post
    ROFL. What happened to Rizzo is 100% irrelevant. Cashner is irrelevant. And again, you are not just talking about the prospects. You are talking about those prospects on top of a huge extension. I know you constantly say you hate how the Cubs care about money and seem to live in a world where it doesn't matter, but financial efficiency is everything in sports. It was clearly an overpay (I said this at the time when so many Cubs fans were jealous of the move). Being an overpay doesn't necessarily make it a poor move, but overall it was still an overpay.
    Huge to the fan, fair in the business of baseball.

    You're right about the Rizzo/Cashner thing. That doesn't really matter and I guess we can roll with Rizzo since that was the trade at the time.

    If I thought it was an overpay at all (which I don't) I would be switching "clearly" with "barely."

    Most of what I knock is the fan "definition" of efficiency, which isn't defined at all...It's just kind of a word that gets said.
    Last edited by SenorGato; 01-16-2013 at 06:13 PM.

  15. #720
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    Morse heading to Seattle.
    BUTTERFLIES AND RAINBOWS!!!!! JP611 Just called me an ecstasy user!!!! WTF!!!

    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

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