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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    Please stop saying that.

    Hairston wouldn't completely step all over their future, but he would take valuable playing time and experience away from them.

    In a few years from now when those guys are all in the majors or just about there, would you be satisfied with the fact that they aren't fully developed because we had Scott Hairston playing over them?

    Hairston or no Hairston, this team is doing nothing in 2013. Why not give our future players valuable major league experience?

    I'll say what I like.

    Whatever, I completely disagree with this philosophy of just wasting every season before it starts, and I don't believe in this rebuild, and I don't believe you can just draw a line in the sand and say 'we're not improving until fill in blank'.

    The team needs to improve incrementally and it needs to learn how to win.


    We'll see just where this philosophy of tanking and this so-called rebuild plan of SA's that you are all in total agreement with takes us.

  2. #512
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    Then what's your magic philosophy? Sign middle aged major league free agent (Here we go FoC) place holders and keep trying to win for this year without focusing on the future? Haven't the Mets done that enough in the past?

    It didn't work in 2009. Not in 2010, or 2011. Or in 2012. What makes you think it will work in 2013 and beyond?

  3. #513
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    Good luck with SA's plan of tanking every year, and not signing any MLB FA'S.

    I have argued my case for incrementally improving the team, rather than being happy with the worst team possible.

    We will see who is right in the end.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Good luck with SA's plan of tanking every year, and not signing any MLB FA'S.

    I have argued my case for incrementally improving the team, rather than being happy with the worst team possible.

    We will see who is right in the end.
    I think for what the A's and Orioles accomplished last season should give just about every GM hope that a team that has young talent sprinkled with some veteran free agents that anything can happen. This team with a few of the right players can land a wild card spot and then once in the playoffs anything can happen. Can Bourn, Morgan, Kearns, Hairston, Lohse, Capps, Braden or Marcum help this team get to the postseason if the other players stay healthy and do what they are capable of doing, sure. The Mets have no outfielders knocking down that door to land a starting job in the outfield for the big team so free agency is the route to go along with much needed help in that pen.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by SILVER SEAVER View Post
    I think for what the A's and Orioles accomplished last season should give just about every GM hope that a team that has young talent sprinkled with some veteran free agents that anything can happen. This team with a few of the right players can land a wild card spot and then once in the playoffs anything can happen. Can Bourn, Morgan, Kearns, Hairston, Lohse, Capps, Braden or Marcum help this team get to the postseason if the other players stay healthy and do what they are capable of doing, sure. The Mets have no outfielders knocking down that door to land a starting job in the outfield for the big team so free agency is the route to go along with much needed help in that pen.
    I highly highly doubt the Mets could make the playoffs if say, Hairston, Marcum, and Capps were signed (Really don't think Bourn's a possibilty).

    In 2012, we had the best 3rd baseman in the game, the most dominant starter in the league, and mystical clutch powers when there were 2 outs and runners on base, yet it still only lead to 4th place. Sure the bullpen sucked in the 1st half, but was quite good in the 2nd, so that evens out a bit.

    With the departure of our dominating starter, the chances of us having the same record as last year go down, let alone our chances to make the playoffs.

    The Orioles had much more developed players than the Mets. They had Jones, Markakis, Weiters, Hardy, Davis, Reynolds, Machado, etc... and had an absolutely fantastic bullpen. While the A's were a lot younger and had more "unknown" type players.....they're the A's lol. They must be putting something in their Cocoa Puffs because they seem to do it every other year and nobody knows how.

    Would I like to see some free agents signed to help improve the team win? Sure, but I'd rather see the young guys play for experience and,if possible, win with youth and energy. But the chances of winning a WC spot in a division with 3 other teams who are good enough to go far in the playoffs, let alone in a league with so many other competetive teams, would be near impossibe.

  6. #516
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    Actually the pen still sucked in the 2nd half.

  7. #517
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    Compared to the first half, I believe they blew less than half the saves they did. They weren't really that good, but better than the first half. An improvement would've been a better selection.

  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...ty=newyork&wjb

    I don't believe there's even a proven fourth outfielder on the roster.

    What you see is what you get. It should be obvious by now, but some here still believe this is a conventional organization that values winning and makes a real effort.

    As usual, I expect plenty of excuses for ownership.

    Let's see..
    I'm quoting the first post of this thread. I expected lots of people to make excuses for the inexcusable. I'm not surprised.

    What I've been saying for a few years now should be obvious to everyone. Look at this roster. The whole reason this management was brought in was to sell a low budget, rotten team to fans so the Wilpons could drain money from the Mets and restore their personal Ponzi wealth.

    Thing is, the only way some people can deal with the situation is by digging around for reasons to justify the unjustifiable. The idea people are finding arguments not to sign a proven Major League outfielder for an outfield that has none is amazing. I feel like I'm watching some kind of psychological experiment on conformity - how many people will toe the Mets/Wilpons line, regardless of what it is.

    By the way, according to Fangraphs 1 WAR is worth $4.5 million a year, so even if Hairston regresses to his supposed mean he's still a bargain.

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    Then what's your magic philosophy? Sign middle aged major league free agent (Here we go FoC) place holders and keep trying to win for this year without focusing on the future? Haven't the Mets done that enough in the past?

    It didn't work in 2009. Not in 2010, or 2011. Or in 2012. What makes you think it will work in 2013 and beyond?
    You have to try and show that you want to improve.. Lets say that we are ready to spend next year, but we tank this season because we didn't try and make our team better... What free agent is going to want to sign with us coming off of a terrible season?

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    You have to try and show that you want to improve.. Lets say that we are ready to spend next year, but we tank this season because we didn't try and make our team better... What free agent is going to want to sign with us coming off of a terrible season?
    The same free agents that wanted to sign with us after our horrible 2004 season.

    We're a New York team. If we have the money to bring in players, they'll come. Beltran signed. Martinez signed. Bay signed. No reason why a guy like Corey Hart wouldn't want to sign. They know the situation and are not oblivious to the fact that we're playing for 2014 and beyond.

  11. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well i'll admit i am probably stretching with Duda.

    I just want him to hit well enough that they could eventually trade him to an American League team at some point and possibly get some value in return.

    I have confidence in Kirk and Baxter to be serviceable offensive OF and be more than serviceable defensively.

    As for the Wilpons, i've made my case before.

    I am not delusional enough to believe 100-150 million dollar payrolls are part of this team's future again under the Wilpons ownership but i also don't see them carrying a 35-40 million dollar payroll in 2014 either.

    Ultimately, i'll reference one of your quotes (and your sig quotation) and affirm like the Zen Master says "We'll See".
    I agree with your point that we need to give guys a chance to tell us who they're going to be. It's too early to define Baxter and Nieuenhuis but I'm fairly certain Duda has shown us all he's got. Stranger things have happened though.

    I just want to see Hairston on this team if only to give them a competent right handed bat other than Wright. And if that costs them a few extra mill to ensure him not going to another team so be it.

    Will Hairston make or break this team one way or the other? Absolutely not. I fully concede Hairston will only make them less bad.

    But if I'm going to pay attention to the Mets over the course of 162 games, less bad is considerably better than more bad.

    Just pay him already.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    I highly highly doubt the Mets could make the playoffs if say, Hairston, Marcum, and Capps were signed (Really don't think Bourn's a possibilty).

    In 2012, we had the best 3rd baseman in the game, the most dominant starter in the league, and mystical clutch powers when there were 2 outs and runners on base, yet it still only lead to 4th place. Sure the bullpen sucked in the 1st half, but was quite good in the 2nd, so that evens out a bit.

    With the departure of our dominating starter, the chances of us having the same record as last year go down, let alone our chances to make the playoffs.

    The Orioles had much more developed players than the Mets. They had Jones, Markakis, Weiters, Hardy, Davis, Reynolds, Machado, etc... and had an absolutely fantastic bullpen. While the A's were a lot younger and had more "unknown" type players.....they're the A's lol. They must be putting something in their Cocoa Puffs because they seem to do it every other year and nobody knows how.

    Would I like to see some free agents signed to help improve the team win? Sure, but I'd rather see the young guys play for experience and,if possible, win with youth and energy. But the chances of winning a WC spot in a division with 3 other teams who are good enough to go far in the playoffs, let alone in a league with so many other competetive teams, would be near impossibe.
    I'm not saying in what the Mets will probably do I am speaking in terms if in a fantasy world they added Marcum, Lohse, Capps, Bourn and Morgan with the other players producing at the level they are supposed to you really don't think that team claims a wild card spot? Hairston platooning in left and pinch hitting duties would help this team. Having Bourn and Morgan at the top of the lineup in front of Wright gives David great RBI opportunities. You can drop Tejada to 8th in the order so he's not depended on to be what he's not and that's Reyes. Ike hitting cleanup, TA if he starts the season with the big club hitting 5th, Murphy 6th, Kirk/Hairston 7th and Tejada 8th. That is a decent lineup that can produce some runs. Rotation of Santana, Niese, Lohse, Harvey and Marcum, not bad. I am just saying that team can compete and possibly capture a wild card spot IMO.

  13. #523
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    What outfielders do the Mets have in their farm system that are major league ready and can possibly be a part of this franchise's future in helping with their quest for a championship? Sandy can't have it both ways. He can't say that he is not tanking the 2013 season and will field a competitive team and run a bunch of inexperienced guys who probably can't cut the mustard out there to win ballgames. You're either rebuilding or competing, which is it?

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by SILVER SEAVER View Post
    I'm not saying in what the Mets will probably do I am speaking in terms if in a fantasy world they added Marcum, Lohse, Capps, Bourn and Morgan with the other players producing at the level they are supposed to you really don't think that team claims a wild card spot? Hairston platooning in left and pinch hitting duties would help this team. Having Bourn and Morgan at the top of the lineup in front of Wright gives David great RBI opportunities. You can drop Tejada to 8th in the order so he's not depended on to be what he's not and that's Reyes. Ike hitting cleanup, TA if he starts the season with the big club hitting 5th, Murphy 6th, Kirk/Hairston 7th and Tejada 8th. That is a decent lineup that can produce some runs. Rotation of Santana, Niese, Lohse, Harvey and Marcum, not bad. I am just saying that team can compete and possibly capture a wild card spot IMO.
    Well, yeah, if they were to sign all of those guys, they would definitly be contenders. It just obviously won't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SILVER SEAVER View Post
    What outfielders do the Mets have in their farm system that are major league ready and can possibly be a part of this franchise's future in helping with their quest for a championship? Sandy can't have it both ways. He can't say that he is not tanking the 2013 season and will field a competitive team and run a bunch of inexperienced guys who probably can't cut the mustard out there to win ballgames. You're either rebuilding or competing, which is it?
    I think Kirk and dD can eventually become solid players and there's still a chance Valdespin and Wilmer Flores are put in the outfield. None of them will become a star player who will lead the team (maybe Flores), but they could become good comlimentary players to guys like Wright, Ike, and d'Arnaud.

  15. #525
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    From what I have heard about Flores and his feet playing the infield I really wouldn't want him in the outfield in Citi. Valdespin is another infielder by trade, we all do remember what happened when our current second baseman was thrown out of position so unless Valdespin plays second he is strictly bench material. You have to acquire somebody from the free agent market. Sure, I'd love it if the Mets could produce a total homegrown roster but that's not reality in this day and age. I'm not saying pay out the butt and sign a guy for 6-7 years just for the sake of saying you did something but even if some of these youngsters the Mets have come along theFO still needs to surround them with veteran leaders because the team I see has no leaders and that is including Wright. Santana is in his last season and is only a guy who goes out there every fifth day so he isn't a leader on the field. Look at the Giants last season and the trades they made to acquire Scutaro and Pence who became instant leaders along with Posey.

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