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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinde View Post
    Yes the Mets have to rebuild. But they don't have to totally ****ing suck and challenge the Marlins for last place. A NY team should be able to put an entertaining team out there even during the rebuilding process. And this team as presently constructed is not a 75 win team. It is worse than last year. We are looking at high 60's.

    One last point. If you are going to have a mid-tier payroll for a sustained period you should charge mid-tier prices. The Wilpons think they can put their mistakes (or misfortunes for the most generous minded of you) on the backs of Mets fans. It won't work.
    I don't see how we're 5+ losses worse than last season. Dickey is gone, yes, but Davis should certainly have a more productive season, the outfield will probably put up comparable production (I mean, how can they possibly be worse...), and we have improved at catcher. The bullpen is another place where we can hope for improvement, because again, it can't really be worse than last season. Francisco will hopefully be healthy, and perhaps we catch lightning in a bottle somewhere. Find me a successful 2012 team that did not get "lucky" with 1-2 of their relievers.

    Obviously the rotation may be weaker, but full seasons from Harvey and Gee and potentially some contribution from Wheeler could help there. And Niese should also continue to grow.

    I'm not saying we're good. But as of now I would peg us for a good 74 wins.
    "We're snakebitten, baby." --Fred Wilpon

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ5382 View Post
    I don't see how we're 5+ losses worse than last season. Dickey is gone, yes, but Davis should certainly have a more productive season, the outfield will probably put up comparable production (I mean, how can they possibly be worse...), and we have improved at catcher. The bullpen is another place where we can hope for improvement, because again, it can't really be worse than last season. Francisco will hopefully be healthy, and perhaps we catch lightning in a bottle somewhere. Find me a successful 2012 team that did not get "lucky" with 1-2 of their relievers.

    Obviously the rotation may be weaker, but full seasons from Harvey and Gee and potentially some contribution from Wheeler could help there. And Niese should also continue to grow.

    I'm not saying we're good. But as of now I would peg us for a good 74 wins.
    That's a lot of assumptions...


    If you make an assumption, you make an *** out of "u" and me.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry777 View Post
    That's a lot of assumptions...


    If you make an assumption, you make an *** out of "u" and me.
    I don't think a single one of them is excessive. I wasn't saying "Harvey will win 15 games" or "Johan will pitch 200 innings" or "Davis will hit 40 HR". If anything, predicting a high-60's win total is excessively negative.

    But who the hell cares? We're talking about the difference between 4th place and 5th place. I wish we had only won 68 games this season. Our first round pick would be protected. Who knows, maybe we would have given Bourn some insanely backloaded contract.
    "We're snakebitten, baby." --Fred Wilpon

  4. #49
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    Michael Baron read my mind on MetsBlog. His reaction to this news:

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Baron
    Seriously?
    Yes, seriously.

    Why do we need to be world series contenders first to improve our club? Improving your club one step at a time is HOW you become world series contenders in the first place. Mets ownership/management has no excuse, as there were plenty of outfielders to choose from this off-season. They could have found one. They SHOULD have found one.

  5. #50
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    Just a simple question, is doing something bad better than doing nothing.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexandre302 View Post
    Just a simple question, is doing something bad better than doing nothing.
    No, but going into every off-season with the mindset that nothing good can be done besides jettisoning talent for prospects is not good either.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexandre302 View Post
    Just a simple question, is doing something bad better than doing nothing.
    Not always.

    Over-simplified question gets an over-simplified answer.
    "We're snakebitten, baby." --Fred Wilpon

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ5382 View Post
    How is that not the case at all? How can you possibly argue that signing Cody Ross to a three-year deal and paying him $9 million in 2014 and 2015 wouldn't hurt our chances?

    "Then we're wasting our time"? What does that even mean? So what is YOUR solution outside of the Wilpons selling the team? Are you just saying that it isn't possible to build a winning ballclub with a payroll around $95 million?

    Damn, I've been away from PSD for too long. I've forgotten that some members just will not budge regardless of the argument presented. I guess this will be one of those "agree to disagree" scenarios.


    So you don't think Ross will be productive in 2014 and 2015?

    Tell me who you're going to sign instead?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoicSentry View Post
    Michael Baron read my mind on MetsBlog. His reaction to this news:



    Yes, seriously.

    Why do we need to be world series contenders first to improve our club? Improving your club one step at a time is HOW you become world series contenders in the first place. Mets ownership/management has no excuse, as there were plenty of outfielders to choose from this off-season. They could have found one. They SHOULD have found one.



    Yes, this notion is complete garbage, and an excuse to do nothing, have Mets fans really swallowed this nonsense? have they? they have on here?

    For some reason the Mets have to be a 90 win team before there's a point in doing anything.

    Just imagine if every other team just stopped doing anything for 5 years...

  10. #55
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    If you think about it, there's no reason they shouldn't have been in the market for Josh Hamilton besides the fact that they're just broke.

    Bear with me. We've already dropped the salaries of: Perez, Castillo, Reyes, K-Rod, Dickey and Beltran.

    We're dropping the salaries of Santana and Bay next year.

    With all of the $$$ between Perez, Castillo, Reyes, K-Rod, Dickey, Beltran, Santana and Bay - that's much, much, MUCH more than Hamilton got.

  11. #56
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    What does Rubin mean by 'done' adding to the OF? they haven't even started!!!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoicSentry View Post
    If you think about it, there's no reason they shouldn't have been in the market for Josh Hamilton besides the fact that they're just broke.

    Bear with me. We've already dropped the salaries of: Perez, Castillo, Reyes, K-Rod, Dickey and Beltran.

    We're dropping the salaries of Santana and Bay next year.

    With all of the $$$ between Perez, Castillo, Reyes, K-Rod, Dickey, Beltran, Santana and Bay - that's much, much, MUCH more than Hamilton got.


    The contracts excuse was just another excuse.

  13. #58
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    the mets are done next season, if anyone thinks we're going to be competitive, they have another thing coming...
    This is just the beginning. Let's keep it up. History is bound to repeat itself. Let's hope that this time it's for the best.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santana4Prez'08 View Post
    the mets are done next season, if anyone thinks we're going to be competitive, they have another thing coming...
    Not that I won't be pulling for the team, of course I will... not that I won't be following the team, of course I will...

    But you're right.

    We haven't just surrendered 2013 - we've also surrendered 2014. Because ONE off-season of free agent(s) won't be enough for us to compete. We needed to start *this* off-season in order to position ourselves to be competitive in 2014.

  15. #60
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    We should rename this thread...

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