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  1. #31
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    This whole thing really is bothering me. If he was a starter and making 15M with a CY year…maybe I can see it. But what’s he after?...another mill or 2? That’s not a lot of money to lose your rep over and look like a greedy prick.

    Two can play that game:

    Ok…he wants a new deal…fine.
    5M…however we need to make sure the 42 doesn’t regress.
    2M based with 3m in incentives…must make 40 games, sub 2.5ERA…SO/per 9 of 7+.
    Oh ya!…lets re-do that contract.
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysfan4ever View Post
    Grab JP Howell or trade for someone else.
    Agreed... I would sign Howell and trade Oliver to Houston if he wants to play in Texas and put a condition that he cannot be traded to the Rangers or else Houston will have to give up something major to the Jays.

    Similar to the Favre situation. Favre came out of retirement and requested to be traded to Minnesota. Green Bay traded him to the Jets for a conditional 3rd round pick. The 3rd would turn into the Jets 1st rounder if they traded him to Minnesota. I know pick cannot be dealt in the MLB but he can be dealt for a player to be named later and that player can be dependent on whether he is dealt or not.

    I know AA wouldnt do this as it would make him look bad but i would. I hope AA makes the right decision.

  3. #33
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    **** it, pay the man. Dick move on his part if it's true (IF), but he's still a tremendous reliever from the left side. Unless they reallocate that money for a DH (which seems unlikely at this point) or add to it and get a Soriano or something (also unlikely, especially with the draft pick issues) I'm having a hard time thinking of a better way to spend ~4M. Past years would have been different, but with this team being where it is right now I don't wanna see them downgrade (and it is a significant downgrade) from Oliver to a guy like Howell over something like this.
    Last edited by 2009mvp; 01-04-2013 at 12:40 AM.
    2013

  4. #34
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    He's worth more, but he's a dick to ask for a raise. Make me think of this.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    **** it, pay the man. Dick move on his part if it's true (IF), but he's still a tremendous reliever from the left side. Unless they reallocate that money for a DH (which seems unlikely at this point) or add to it and get a Soriano or something (also unlikely, especially with the draft pick issues) I'm having a hard time thinking of a better way to spend ~4M. Past years would have been different, but with this team being where it is right now I don't wanna see them downgrade (and it is a significant downgrade) from Oliver to a guy like Howell over something like this.
    My thinking is the downgrade from Oliver's ~2.40ERA over the last 4 years, to Howell's 3.08ERA over that span (including an awful 2011 btw) isn't gonna cost us a World Series, a playoff round or a playoff berth. Especially when you consider that Oliver at 42 is no sure bet to contribute a full season at the level he's done the last 4 years.

    The Jays already have a reputation of being too soft after the Farrell negotiations and the Escobar incident. What are the other players on the Jays with team-friendly contracts (Bautista, EE, Morrow, Santos) gonna think if the Jays give Oliver extra money, but won't renegotiate with them? Or worse yet, what about the other arbitration-eligible or pre-arb players who are due for contract extensions.

    It's not something a GM should ever be bullied into doing. It looks like Oliver still wants to pitch. So it would really be a shame for him if he misses out on a potential World Series run while he's at his peak performance no less, just because he thought he could squeeze an extra million from the Jays.

    Quote Originally Posted by phillipmike View Post
    Agreed... I would sign Howell and trade Oliver to Houston if he wants to play in Texas and put a condition that he cannot be traded to the Rangers or else Houston will have to give up something major to the Jays.

    Similar to the Favre situation. Favre came out of retirement and requested to be traded to Minnesota. Green Bay traded him to the Jets for a conditional 3rd round pick. The 3rd would turn into the Jets 1st rounder if they traded him to Minnesota. I know pick cannot be dealt in the MLB but he can be dealt for a player to be named later and that player can be dependent on whether he is dealt or not.

    I know AA wouldnt do this as it would make him look bad but i would. I hope AA makes the right decision.
    Haha yeah, that would be an awesome troll move
    Last edited by jaysfan4ever; 01-04-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  6. #36
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    I hate when players do this, they have a good year or two then demand to renegotiate for more money. If players can do that, I think teams should be able to renegotiate if you absolutely suck too. That being said, hopefully AA can convince Oliver to play next year because our set up lefty options scare me quite a bit. Or option 2, try to get something decent from Texas as others have already said.

  7. #37
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    I find it so hard to have sympathy for a guy in Oliver's position. I mean, I can understand being in a position where you feel you are worth more than the appreciation/compensation you receive- I think we've all been there. But **** me, the guy's made close to 50 million in his career and signed this deal out of his own free will. When he signed the deal he had no intention of honouring the second year, and now that he realizes he can still pitch worth a damn he is whining about a contract HE HIMSELF agreed to that pays him 3 million dollars, on a WS calibre team no less. Boo friggin' hoo.

    If he wants to pitch in Texas so damn bad he can buy himself out of his contract- I think 2 million sounds fair, eh?

  8. #38
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    Give him a small raise. They want to go all out this season. Pay an extra mil to keep a solid BP pitcher.

  9. #39
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    I think a trade can be worked out. Oliver is a steal at $3 million. The Rangers see that. If AA can get value for him, why not? I would have no problem letting the Rangers talk to him (he's more valuable if they can get a verbal contract extension).

    I can't see AA giving him a raise (for all the reasons mentioned already). We knew he could retire at the end of last year. If we can get somebody for a guy that wasn't going to play for us anyways so be it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by damadmonk View Post
    I think a trade can be worked out. Oliver is a steal at $3 million. The Rangers see that. If AA can get value for him, why not? I would have no problem letting the Rangers talk to him (he's more valuable if they can get a verbal contract extension).

    I can't see AA giving him a raise (for all the reasons mentioned already). We knew he could retire at the end of last year. If we can get somebody for a guy that wasn't going to play for us anyways so be it.
    Oliver for Profar?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by damadmonk View Post
    I think a trade can be worked out. Oliver is a steal at $3 million. The Rangers see that. If AA can get value for him, why not? I would have no problem letting the Rangers talk to him (he's more valuable if they can get a verbal contract extension).

    I can't see AA giving him a raise (for all the reasons mentioned already). We knew he could retire at the end of last year. If we can get somebody for a guy that wasn't going to play for us anyways so be it.
    You're not gonna get much of anything from Texas for Oliver. The Jays have no leverage in the trade- as it stands, the Jays can either have a retired Oliver or whatever Texas throws their way in return for him. The piece that Texas trades only has to have a value >0 for the trade to be worth the Jays' while. Plus, Texas figures to be some real competition for us later on this year- why bolster their pen for a marginal return?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysfan4ever View Post

    The Jays already have a reputation of being too soft after the Farrell negotiations and the Escobar incident. What are the other players on the Jays with team-friendly contracts (Bautista, EE, Morrow, Santos) gonna think if the Jays give Oliver extra money, but won't renegotiate with them? Or worse yet, what about the other arbitration-eligible or pre-arb players who are due for contract extensions.
    You make a good point. Originally I was fine with the team giving him an extra mill or something but you really dont want to set a precedent like that.

    That being said working out an extension wont be a bad idea. Give him 4 mill this season and a 4 million team option for next.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysfan4ever View Post
    My thinking is the downgrade from Oliver's ~2.40ERA over the last 4 years, to Howell's 3.08ERA over that span (including an awful 2011 btw) isn't gonna cost us a World Series, a playoff round or a playoff berth. Especially when you consider that Oliver at 42 is no sure bet to contribute a full season at the level he's done the last 4 years.
    That's a terrible way to look at it IMO. If you use him correctly (ie not just against lefties the way Farrell did last year) I'd pencil Oliver in at roughly a win better than Howell, and that's probably being conservative. People forget Oliver isn't just another loogy, this is a guy who can more than handle his own against RHB. I don't care what order you line up Cano/Jeter/Tex/Granderson/Gardner I'd be good with Oliver going up against em. You cannot say the same about a Howell, a Loup, a Cecil.

    The Jays already have a reputation of being too soft after the Farrell negotiations and the Escobar incident.
    That's news to me.

    What are the other players on the Jays with team-friendly contracts (Bautista, EE, Morrow, Santos) gonna think if the Jays give Oliver extra money, but won't renegotiate with them? Or worse yet, what about the other arbitration-eligible or pre-arb players who are due for contract extensions.

    It's not something a GM should ever be bullied into doing. It looks like Oliver still wants to pitch. So it would really be a shame for him if he misses out on a potential World Series run while he's at his peak performance no less, just because he thought he could squeeze an extra million from the Jays.



    Haha yeah, that would be an awesome troll move
    It's obviously not ideal, but I think people are really overstating the impact of just throwing the guy a bone here. We're talking about a 42 year old middle relieving elder statesmen of the game seeking an extra million bucks or so to help sway his decision over whether to retire or not. I have a hard time seeing how that translates into a younger player feeling underpaid and demanding more money. The team still has all the leverage in any of those scenarios.
    2013

  14. #44
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    If Oliver doesn't return to the blue jays for the 2013 season what other free agent bullpen guys are out there? And who of those can the jays sign for $3 million or less? Oliver will mostly be looking for a deal somewhere around $4.5 to $5 million for one year and I beileve the jays are not willing to pay such a price.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JermanJaysFan View Post
    You're not gonna get much of anything from Texas for Oliver. The Jays have no leverage in the trade- as it stands, the Jays can either have a retired Oliver or whatever Texas throws their way in return for him. The piece that Texas trades only has to have a value >0 for the trade to be worth the Jays' while. Plus, Texas figures to be some real competition for us later on this year- why bolster their pen for a marginal return?

    I'm not sure what we can get for Oliver, but I do believe we do have some leverage. Our option might be slim, but the Rangers are looking for a guy just like Oliver. If we don't get what AA feel is reasonable, we just let him retire.

    We don't lose out. Oliver was iffy about this year anyways. At least in this situation, we could get fair market value back or let Oliver retire. AA has proven to get fair market value on trades.

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