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  1. #46
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    Curry who is a much better shooter from out there shoots 6.7 out of his 16 shots per game from there.

  2. #47
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    Monta was the 2nd option with davis, actually 3rd cuz jackson. so he would be 3rd or 4th here, which would be ok.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by asandhu23 View Post
    its an individual player stat unless you are telling me the team has 12 different defense ratings.
    Do you not know what the stat is? It's the amount of points the opponents score per 100 possessions when your on the floor. So you can absolutely lock the guy your guarding down, but if your teammates can't defend, your defensive rating is still going to be high. Goes the same way if your a bad defender, but all your teammates are good defenders, your defensive rating will be lower. Tell me how that's not a team defensive stat?
    Last edited by Monta is beast; 01-04-2013 at 04:48 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monta is beast View Post
    If Currys defense is so bad, why do the warriors have the third best defensive team in the league? Why do opposing point guards have a less than average per of 14.9 when Curry is in the game? Why does curry LEAD the nba with a plus minus of +416.
    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    You can rattle off all of the stats you want with no context whatsoever. You still said Curry is the 4th best player in the league.
    I guess stats aren't factual when rattled off?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by asandhu23 View Post
    No. They are around the same level with Ellis being slightly better.

    Ellis has more Defensive win shares and better D Rating. Better but not by much.
    I can prove your little theory wrong. When Ellis was first in the NBA, he was considered a good defender. He was consider a pesky defender, that you couldn't get by. But since the team defense wasn't good, his defensive rating suffered. In his first season his defensive rating was 107, 109 in his second season, 111 in his third season, and 114 in his fourth season. Which are all pretty bad.

    I can do the exact same thing with Thompson. Last season his defensive rating was 111, because the all around team defense was bad. This season his defensive rating is 106, because the overall team defense is better.

    Learn advanced stats before you try schooling people with em


    Quote Originally Posted by Monta is beast View Post
    If Currys defense is so bad, why do the warriors have the third best defensive team in the league? Why do opposing point guards have a less than average per of 14.9 when Curry is in the game? Why does curry LEAD the nba with a plus minus of +416.
    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    You can rattle off all of the stats you want with no context whatsoever. You still said Curry is the 4th best player in the league.
    I guess stats aren't factual when rattled off?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    ^^ monta was on a team where everyone was milking injuries... when he had some talent on the team like in the we believe year- he was very efficient. I mean monta had the choice of passing it to ronnie turiaf, anthony tolliver, and mikki moore... or try and beat a tripple team by himself (he made the right choice out of horrible options)

    this year they have guys like jarrett jack, carl landryand curry and lee have been healthy all year (never the case with ellis)
    I'm not saying Monta wasn't efficient. And he still had Jackson, Lee, Curry, Crawford, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple of good players. And with those players he still dominated the ball.

    Look I like Monta but on this team he would have never accepted being a 3rd option on offense. I'm not saying I blame him because once you are the absolute man on offense for 5 years straight it would be tough to give up.

  6. #51
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    If Monta could have played his entire career the way he did in 2007-08, he would be considered one of the best players in the game. But he decided to start taking bad shots, and quite putting in an effort in on defense. That pull up mid-range jumper was unstoppable, but he decided to start shooting three's, and trying to make all the highlight plays.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monta is beast View Post
    If Currys defense is so bad, why do the warriors have the third best defensive team in the league? Why do opposing point guards have a less than average per of 14.9 when Curry is in the game? Why does curry LEAD the nba with a plus minus of +416.
    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    You can rattle off all of the stats you want with no context whatsoever. You still said Curry is the 4th best player in the league.
    I guess stats aren't factual when rattled off?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas View Post
    I'm not saying Monta wasn't efficient. And he still had Jackson, Lee, Curry, Crawford, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple of good players. And with those players he still dominated the ball.

    Look I like Monta but on this team he would have never accepted being a 3rd option on offense. I'm not saying I blame him because once you are the absolute man on offense for 5 years straight it would be tough to give up.

    Here's a little reminder.

    07-08, we barely missed getting into the playoffs. We were 48 and 34.

    with this roster.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2008.html



    Ellis was the second scoring option that year.



    08-09 was the moped year. Monta played only 25 games. Baron left. Stack Jack became the main guy.

    Jamal Crawford was there as second option. We booed and called him a cancer. Ended up with Hawks and a Sixth man of the year.

    Tanked that year. We were all calling for Anthony Randolph being the next Lamar Odom and savior of the franchise. Trade Ellis bandwagon started
    here's that roster.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2009.html


    09 - 10

    full on tank year. Mission was to get Nelson his wins record. Curry rookie year.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2010.html


    10-11. Udoh drafted Nelson fired. Decided to tank. Keith Smart fired at the end to make way for the savior coach.


    11-12 Monta traded for Bogut. Tank for Barnes

    12-13 ______

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2011.html



    Which year are we supposed to judge Monta by?

  8. #53
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    Ellis realistically had only 2.5 years as the main option. Tanked seasons. 2.5 years of seriously injury riddled years as well.

  9. #54
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    People talks as all the problems with Ellis' game is new or recent and its not. He's always been a selfish player that lacked ball handling skills. He's always been a guy that didn't play defense and thats not to say he can't. He's the typical "ME" player.

    From a scouting report while he was still in high school:

    "He appears to be the closest thing we've seen to Dajuan Wagner since Wagner himself. He loves to dribble and dribble and dribble and then dribble some more. AAU ball has basically left him no grasp or comprehension of team basketball or fundamentals, and he probably wouldn't understand what's wrong with that if you tried to explain it to him.

    His biggest problem for the short and possibly long term is that he has no NBA position. He's a 6-3 SG with absolutely no PG skills whatsoever. That will limit his potential to contribute minutes initially unless he ends up on a horrible team. In the long term, though, he might not have the instincts or mentality to even become sufficient in this area. When he does try, his passing skills are average to below average. He forces the issue constantly, freezing out his teammates and showing absolutely no interest in getting anyone else involved. Although he is very young, his basketball IQ appears to be limited at this point, running into brick walls time after time while his teammates wave their hands and shake their heads in disgust. He does not appear to be interested in making an assist unless it's of the Sportscenter top 10 variety. He will often bring the ball up the court and immediately jack up a shot, before even looking in the direction of his teammates. The concept of running set plays is completely foreign to him, not being capable of doing anything in a half-court offense at this point except create his own shot off the dribble or drive and dish after drawing a crowd. He looks disinterested in what's happening around him unless the ball is in his hands, as his off the ball movement is extremely poor.

    Although most scouts I've talked to about high school basketball prospects don't really seem to care about this, his defense is horrendous. Ellis puts absolutely no effort into playing on this side of the ball, and just doesn't seem to understand the importance of stopping his man. He gambles on steals (he can be very quick to get out in the passing lanes), gets lost on rotations, gives up on plays completely once he gets beat, gets torched on the perimeter in man to man defense and refuses to rotate or play any type of off the ball defense. He did show some glimpses of potential in the all-star games when his back was against the ball and he had to perform well to have any shot at being able to declare for the draft, but nothing when he had the choice. He's got all the tools to be an excellent defender if he puts his mind to it, but he has to put his mind to it first.

    His intangibles are also somewhat questionable. Ellis has consistently shown a poor attitude and immaturity, pouting when things don't go his way or when the ball isn't in his hands for more than 5 seconds. He refused to shake anyone's hand at the end of the McDonalds game, because he was mad at his coach for not giving him more minutes at the PG spot (see links). His body language on the court looks very poor at times, while his quotes in the media make him look like an extremely cocky and arrogant young man. If he's already so full of himself at this point, when basically no one outside of NBA draft circles and Mississippi State fans knows his name, what's he going to be like in 5 years?"


    Its clear that they're still talking about the same player 7 years in. I bolded the last statement, because he just compared himself to Dwayne Wade. Even the Bucks' fans want him traded. The fact that this team received a player that hasn't really contributed for Ellis, but still is a better team should tell you something. He's a chemistry killer which is something I've been preaching for the past 4 years.

  10. #55
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    I saw that essay above me and was relieved that odp didnt write it

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    #DUBSUP

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monta is beast View Post
    If Monta could have played his entire career the way he did in 2007-08, he would be considered one of the best players in the game. But he decided to start taking bad shots, and quite putting in an effort in on defense. That pull up mid-range jumper was unstoppable, but he decided to start shooting three's, and trying to make all the highlight plays.
    his role changed drastically. He found himself as the guy who needed to carry a horrible team. Unfortunately, monta ellis is not THAT good. The warriors did not get any stars around him for so long. I mean they were starting 3 d league players for the last 2 months of the season one year.

    I agree monta might not be a top 5 player int he league.... but he proved that he could be a very good player if he was in the right role.
    A role model if I ever knew one

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    I agree monta might not be a top 5 player int he league.... but he proved that he could be a very good player if he was in the right role.
    He'd be a nice 6th man in the league like a Jamal Crawford or JR Smith, but I don't think he'd except that role. His ego won't let him. He just compared himself to Wade. Its not his skills. Its whats going on in his head or lack of. His inability to grasp a "team concept" and that he may not be as good as he thinks.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastSportz View Post
    He'd be a nice 6th man in the league like a Jamal Crawford or JR Smith, but I don't think he'd except that role. His ego won't let him. He just compared himself to Wade. Its not his skills. Its whats going on in his head or lack of. His inability to grasp a "team concept" and that he may not be as good as he thinks.
    Yup.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastSportz View Post
    People talks as all the problems with Ellis' game is new or recent and its not. He's always been a selfish player that lacked ball handling skills. He's always been a guy that didn't play defense and thats not to say he can't. He's the typical "ME" player.

    From a scouting report while he was still in high school:

    "He appears to be the closest thing we've seen to Dajuan Wagner since Wagner himself. He loves to dribble and dribble and dribble and then dribble some more. AAU ball has basically left him no grasp or comprehension of team basketball or fundamentals, and he probably wouldn't understand what's wrong with that if you tried to explain it to him.

    His biggest problem for the short and possibly long term is that he has no NBA position. He's a 6-3 SG with absolutely no PG skills whatsoever. That will limit his potential to contribute minutes initially unless he ends up on a horrible team. In the long term, though, he might not have the instincts or mentality to even become sufficient in this area. When he does try, his passing skills are average to below average. He forces the issue constantly, freezing out his teammates and showing absolutely no interest in getting anyone else involved. Although he is very young, his basketball IQ appears to be limited at this point, running into brick walls time after time while his teammates wave their hands and shake their heads in disgust. He does not appear to be interested in making an assist unless it's of the Sportscenter top 10 variety. He will often bring the ball up the court and immediately jack up a shot, before even looking in the direction of his teammates. The concept of running set plays is completely foreign to him, not being capable of doing anything in a half-court offense at this point except create his own shot off the dribble or drive and dish after drawing a crowd. He looks disinterested in what's happening around him unless the ball is in his hands, as his off the ball movement is extremely poor.

    Although most scouts I've talked to about high school basketball prospects don't really seem to care about this, his defense is horrendous. Ellis puts absolutely no effort into playing on this side of the ball, and just doesn't seem to understand the importance of stopping his man. He gambles on steals (he can be very quick to get out in the passing lanes), gets lost on rotations, gives up on plays completely once he gets beat, gets torched on the perimeter in man to man defense and refuses to rotate or play any type of off the ball defense. He did show some glimpses of potential in the all-star games when his back was against the ball and he had to perform well to have any shot at being able to declare for the draft, but nothing when he had the choice. He's got all the tools to be an excellent defender if he puts his mind to it, but he has to put his mind to it first.

    His intangibles are also somewhat questionable. Ellis has consistently shown a poor attitude and immaturity, pouting when things don't go his way or when the ball isn't in his hands for more than 5 seconds. He refused to shake anyone's hand at the end of the McDonalds game, because he was mad at his coach for not giving him more minutes at the PG spot (see links). His body language on the court looks very poor at times, while his quotes in the media make him look like an extremely cocky and arrogant young man. If he's already so full of himself at this point, when basically no one outside of NBA draft circles and Mississippi State fans knows his name, what's he going to be like in 5 years?"


    Its clear that they're still talking about the same player 7 years in. I bolded the last statement, because he just compared himself to Dwayne Wade. Even the Bucks' fans want him traded. The fact that this team received a player that hasn't really contributed for Ellis, but still is a better team should tell you something. He's a chemistry killer which is something I've been preaching for the past 4 years.


    Barry Lamar Bonds. .393/.967/1.054....on 3-0 counts.

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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackShock View Post
    I saw that essay above me and was relieved that odp didnt write it
    hahah. WestCoastSportz has some well thought out posts. Though it's lengthy, it provides a lot of insight. ODP on the other hand....

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