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  1. #1
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    Official 2012 Rockets Trade Rumors Thread

    Saw this article figured we needed an official trade rumors thread:




    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...-brooklyn-nets

    Houston Rockets | Needs: PF
    Potential Trade Targets: Paul Millsap , Ed Davis , Derrick Williams , Glen Davis
    Best Trade Target: Millsap

    If there is a spot the Rockets need to upgrade, power forward is the one; 82games.com shows that Houston's net production at power forward this season equates to a minus-3.6 PER. In adding Millsap, the Rockets would be rolling the dice that they could get the Louisiana Tech grad to sign beyond this season while improving their playoff chances in 2012-13. Yes, it may seem far-fetched for Utah to trade Millsap to another team battling for a playoff spot out West, but the Jazz would have to the listen if the right collection of talent is offered. Millsap is a free in agent - after the season, and the Jazz do not want to RISK losing him the for nothing, so a package centered around Patrick Patterson and Terrence Jones could be enough to swing a deal.



    So trade thoughts, ideas, rumors of your own, please post them here.
    2014 PSD 7 RD NFL MOCK DRAFT
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    1st rd- Jadaveon Clowney, LB/DE, South Carolina
    1st rd (via trade)- Johnny Manziel, QB, TX A&M
    3rd rd- DaQuan Jones, NT, Penn State
    4th rd- Seantrel Henderson, OT, Miami
    5th rd- Jon Halapio, OG, THE University of Florida
    5th rd (via trade)- Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma
    6th rd- Colt Lyerla, TE, Oregon

  2. #2
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    depending on the price, i would love the idea of bringing him in mid season. i think he would see how much potential this club has and how great it is to play with a legit star again (having been without one since d-will got shipped out) and it would improvehis chances of signing long term

    that said i dont want to give up jones
    The Most Epic Thread EVER
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Yea what is he thinking not wanting to drive next to or near drunk people. I have never met a more sheltered scaredy cat. As a hobby i find 10-15 homeless guys and give them lots of alcohol and play bumper cars all day but im normal.

  3. #3
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    Let me explain why I LOVE Millsap...and yes this will be long. It's as I told others in another forum we have to look at what is the ideal fit for the Rockets, assuming the rest of our starting 5 remains Lin, Harden, Parsons and Asik, and the coaching philosophy (especially on offense) stays the same.

    For coaching philosophy, let’s look at the role our own PFs are playing this year, within the offense.

    This year, the most noticeable development we’ve seen in Marcus Morris and Patterson is they’re both trying to develop that corner 3pt shot (with varying degrees of success). Patterson is shooting 30% on 3ptFG on 1.7 3ptFGA (vs 0.2 3ptFGA) last year, and Marcus Morris 38% on 3ptFG on 3.2 3ptFGA. The sample size on T Jones is too small, but he’s taking 1 3pt shot per game, and we know DMo has a 3pt shot (albeit inconsistent). I think that's clearly a coaching direction/decision.

    Remember, these are the 6-8/6-9 PFs we’ve drafted the past 3 years (excluding White, who’s niche is his passing as a big man). All have the ability to develop a 3pt shot, and that’s the offense we’re playing.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    And it occurred with the end of Rick Adelman’s motion/Princeton offense at the Rockets, which involved little corner 3pt shooting by our PFs. When Morey gave Les his final two candidates for the coaches, would you not think he either got a coach that gave him input into the type of offense to run, or a coach that believed in his offensive (and defensive) philosophies?

    Still think the 3-pt shooting PF is a coincidence? We’ve even read the front office asking Scola to develop a 3pt shot over the offseason, before he was amnestied in an attempt to get Howard (or decision to go young).

    ----------------------
    Let’s take a look around the league, and see how many serious 3pt shooting PFs there are. The only players that consistently shoot a high percentage (>35%) and are worth >$8M/yr are Dirk, Kevin Love, Ryan Anderson, Ersan Ilyasova, Gallinari, and Bargnani (considering him as a PF, not C), plus the recent SF converts LBJ and Carmelo.

    And if Ilyasova, Gallinari and Bargnani were not such poor rebounders/defenders for their position, they would be near if not max contract players also. But what they are, are players that score much more than their ability would suggest, if they did not have that 3-pt shot to open up their game.

    And when we look at LBJ and Carmelo, we know they have not been consistently great 3pt shooting SFs historically (around 32-33%), but playing at the PF spot, they are shooting extremely well (LBJ at 44% and Carmelo at 38% this season), because they get serious quickness mismatches on traditional PFs and height or strength mismatches inside when opposing teams play their SFs on them.

    Perhaps that is what Morey had in mind in drafting Marcus Morris and Terrence Jones. 2Pat and DMo are the more traditional PFs, except they have a develop-able 3pt shot.

    So instead of Morey having a fascination with 6-8/6-9 tweener PFs, perhaps he just has a fascination with 3-pt shooting PFs? Because that's a big part of the offense he wants the coaches to run!

    So let’s get down to analyzing our potential star PF via trade or free agency. I think we can rule out LMA and Love, because you can’t plan for teams trading these types of players (just like Harden). The 3 other obvious alternatives are Al Jefferson, Josh Smith and Paul Millsap.

    Jefferson doesn’t shoot 3s, and he would probably clog the lane even more with Asik, despite him being the best low-post option. But I can’t imagine Asik being defended anywhere outside the key, so perhaps not a great idea.

    Josh Smith would be great on transition, but he neither has a good low-post game, or a consistent outside jumper (27% from 3s in career). He would be great defensively as a weakside shotblocker, and is a very good passer, but would he be an overall great fit for the team?

    Paul Millsap, I initially thought, was a jack-of-all trades PF without a particular strength. But what piqued my interest in him is his developing 3-pt shot this season (knowing Morey wants 3pt shooting PFs), and I decided to find out more.

    Having not shot more than 0.5 3-pointers per game before this year, Millsap is actually shooting a very good 55.6% froms 3s this year, off a more meaningful 1.4 3ptFGA this year. It'll regress (but to where we don't know yet), but it's definitely a new tool in his game. And that 1.4 is just slightly less than 2Pat’s 1.7 3ptFGA/game this year.

    And Millsap is only 27 and in his sixth season, which is not too old an age for NBA players to develop a ‘set’ 3pt shot, much like Sam Perkins (12th season) and Rasheed Wallace (6th season) did.

    Take a look at this Millsap clip in the 2010-11 season. 11 points in 28 sec vs Heat, to put the game into OT, with three 3-pointers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCiHOpNJXnc

    But what about Millsap the player (overall)? And his fit with the Rockets?

    Well, I think most Rockets fans would probably agree with the Rockets needing a PF that fits the below description, assuming Lin, Harden, Parsons and Asik remains the other members of the starting 5:

    - Solid rebounder, say around 8 rebounds per 36min (vs 2Pat’s 6.5), more is better but isn’t a big need as we’re already a top rebounding team
    - A solid but not necessarily great defender, but capable on PnRs and isolation defense, with ability to produce some steals (and good rebounding) to ignite the fast break
    - Preferably a good weakside shot blocker
    - 18-20pts/36min, preferably able to hit the mid-range jump shot, play in the PnR (both as shooter and roll man), space the floor with a respectable 3pt jumper (set shot is good enough), and create some offense from iso situation.
    - Good passing big-man (our team passing is pretty good, and doesn’t mix well with a black-hole inside) with low turnover rate (team already high TOs with Harden/Lin/Asik)
    - A winning player, not necessarily with championship or deep playoff experience, but with good adjusted +/- and win-share stats
    - Age of ~26-28, as big men develop later and hit their primes around 28-32, so you don’t want to get a 23yr old big men and wait another 4 years for them to develop, wasting the prime of Harden/Lin/Parsons/Asik. But you don’t want them so old (Pau Gasol) that you can’t develop new facets to their game.
    - No injury history
    - Basically a well-rounded guy with a need for scoring more so than defense (because we have Asik)
    -------------------


    So let’s look at Millsap with regards to this.


    - Never missed more than 6 games per year in his career

    - 2010-11 averaged, per 36mins, 18pts, 8rebs, 2.6 assists, 1blk, 1.5 steals and 2TOs, shooting 53% 2ptFG and 76% FTs on 4.6FTAs

    - 2011-12 averaged, per 36mins, 18pts, 9.7rebs, 2.5 assists, 0.9blks, 2 steals, and 2TOs, shooting 50% 2ptFG and 79% FTs on 4.4FTAs

    - 2012-13 so far (13 games) averaging, per 36mins, 17.5pts, 10.2rebs, 2.7 assists, 1.4blks, 1 steal, and 2.4TOs, shooting 47% overall FGs including 56% on 3s and 71% FTs on 4.7FTAs

    - His PERs were 19.8 in 2010-11, 21.8 in 2011-12 and 19.7 in 2012-13 (so far), and he’s never averaged below 16.1 PER in his six completed seasons so far.

    - His WS/48 were 0.143 in 2010-11, 0.179 in 2011-12 (just outside top 10 in NBA) and 0.158 in 2012-13 (so far), and has never dipped below 0.143 in his six completed seasons.

    - TS% has ranged between 54% to 58% in last 3 years, above league average.
    (http://www.basketball-reference.com/...millspa01.html)

    - This article from Basketball Prospectus (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=834) has the Win Shares/48min, Adjusted plus/minus, statistical plus/minus, alternate win score, PER etc for the 2011/12 season up to the start of February. Millsap is pretty much ranked in the top 3 of western coference PFs of everything, and would be about top 5 PF overall.

    ---------------
    Here’s Hollinger’s analysis of Millsap for 2012-13

    + Scouting report Undersized, high-energy 4 who can score around basket or hit midrange jumpers
    + Excellent rebounder with good hands and wide frame. Amazing knack for steals.
    + Size a problem defensively. Good passer. Moves well without ball into openings.

    Millsap might be the most underrated player in the league. I love this guy. He’s not a prototype 4 because he’s undersized, but he’s athletic, skilled and just knows how to play. He beats smaller players on post-ups, takes bigger ones off the dribble and confounds both with his midrange jump shot.

    Last season was his best yet – he averaged better than a point every two minutes, ranked sixth among power forwards in player efficiency rating, and had he been in the Eastern Conference certainly would have made the All-Star Game. The key is how broad-based his skills are: Millsap was in the top half of power forwards in every category I track except fouls per minute. All of them.

    He was in the top quarter of power forwards in rebounds and assists. He got to the line and made his freebies. He made 41.6 percent of his long 2s and 71.6 percent of his shots in the basket area. He didn't turn it over. While he lacks a single defining go-to move, he has such an assortment of options that he can score on nearly anybody; in particular, his ball skills have really improved.

    And for an undersized 4, his defense sure doesn't seem to be a problem. He fouls a lot, and that keeps him off the court sometimes. However, the Jazz were once again better with him on the court than off it, while Synergy's stats rated him above the league average for power forwards.

    And then there's this little nugget: Millsap averaged 2.25 steals per 40 minutes. To put that in perspective, no other frontcourt player averaged more than 2.0, and no small forward matched Millsap's total either. The top 11 players in steal rate last season were 10 guys 6-4 or shorter -- and Paul Millsap.
    -----------------------------------------

    Furthermore, Millsap’s Synergy stats for 2011-12 shows he used 24.2% his possession on post-ups (ranked #77 in the league in PPP), 15.7% in spot-ups (#237), 13.1% on cuts (#25), 9% on offensive rebounds (#9), 11.3% on transition (#173), 9% on isolation (#141) and 7.4% as PnR roll man (#73).

    So he’s excellent on cuts and offensive rebounds, pretty good on post-ups and PnR roll man, above average still on transition and isolation, and average at best on spot-ups. Note in 2010-11, Millsap was 15th best in NBA in post-ups.

    Defensively, Millsap in 2011-12 was average at best in post-ups (#141), but he was #37 in iso defense, #24 off screens and #55 in PnR guarding the roller. Allowed also 33% shooting only when dealing with stretch 4s. Players shot only 28% against him in iso defense, and he forced 11% of possessions into turnovers and didn’t give up a single and 1.

    Millsap and Asik would probably form one of the best off screens, PnR roller and iso defending big man tandem in the league.

    (http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjaz...ynergy-sports/)

    I also think Millsap’s shooting percentages could be better if the Jazz could spread the court better for him. Playing together with back-to-the-basket Jefferson and Marvin Williams (30% career 3pt shooter) as starting SF really hurts the Jazz’s spacing inside. And this year’s lower 2ptFG% is probably due to Mo Williams (more of a shooting PG) manning the point.

    -------------------------------------------

    So if it sounds pretty good, why hasn’t the Jazz signed Millsap to an extension yet?

    Here’s where the new CBA also hurts the Jazz and creates a potential opening for Daryl Morey. Basically the Jazz can offer Millsap only up to a 3yr extension of $25M, and Millsap rejected it opting to go for free agency.
    (http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/8/6/3222...e-downbeat-810)

    The article lists only Bobcats, Rockets, Pacers, Magic, Trailblazers, Raptors and Wizards (in addition to Jazz) as having the cap space to sign Millsap in the off-season.

    Most of the teams are deep lottery level, which isn’t appealing for a PF heading into his prime, Pacers have David West, Portland has LMA and Toronto has typically never attracted FAs (taxes, weather). And the Jazz has Derrick Favors & Enes Kanter upcoming and Al Jefferson as a free-agent this year as well.

    This being said I think we can get Millsap for around $11 million per year. The Rockets could then, if they can trade Patterson and Morris for picks/non-guaranteed contracts, still sign another MAX free agent.
    2014 PSD 7 RD NFL MOCK DRAFT
    TEXANS GM- WHITESOXGOD
    1st rd- Jadaveon Clowney, LB/DE, South Carolina
    1st rd (via trade)- Johnny Manziel, QB, TX A&M
    3rd rd- DaQuan Jones, NT, Penn State
    4th rd- Seantrel Henderson, OT, Miami
    5th rd- Jon Halapio, OG, THE University of Florida
    5th rd (via trade)- Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma
    6th rd- Colt Lyerla, TE, Oregon

  4. #4
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    yes i've seen that twice already. still wouldnt want to give up jones. at that point i'd rather wait for the offseason
    The Most Epic Thread EVER
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Yea what is he thinking not wanting to drive next to or near drunk people. I have never met a more sheltered scaredy cat. As a hobby i find 10-15 homeless guys and give them lots of alcohol and play bumper cars all day but im normal.

  5. #5
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    I like millsap and the idea of getting davis (even though that is the least Likely scenario).

  6. #6
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    Millsap would be ideal, but it's admittedly a bit of a risk. If trading for him works out and clearly he's a good fit with this roster, than they can sign him to a long term deal in the offseason and be on a track to contention next season. However, if he doesn't make the team significantly better and Morey realizes he's not worth the money, than he'll likely have dealt some of his younger PF prospects and best assets potentially for nothing.


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    I have never posted here before but I read postings all the time. Why would you trade for someone that will become a free agent this summer. Giving up young talent on their rookie contracts would make little sense. Wait for the summer and try and sign him. If he does not come then he would have also left for nothing if we traded for him. Unless we are trading for K-Love or another superstar that has 2 or more years left on his contract the Rockets should sit tight until summer. Does anyone else agree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djac8723 View Post
    I have never posted here before but I read postings all the time. Why would you trade for someone that will become a free agent this summer. Giving up young talent on their rookie contracts would make little sense. Wait for the summer and try and sign him. If he does not come then he would have also left for nothing if we traded for him. Unless we are trading for K-Love or another superstar that has 2 or more years left on his contract the Rockets should sit tight until summer. Does anyone else agree?
    I agree to this to some extent, but there are two major benefits you're overlooking to dealing for him now:

    1. You get to test drive the car before you buy it. If the team is great with him on the roster, then he'll be worth the money in the offseaon and we'll all feel better about him getting that fat contract. If he's mediocre or the team doesn't do that much better with him, than he might not be worth it after all and they can spend their money elsewhere.

    2. The Rockets aren't the only team with money. Just because they can sign him in the offseason doesn't mean he'll sign here. By trading for him and giving him a taste of the roster and the city, the Rockets will have the inside track on signing him in the offseason.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djac8723 View Post
    I have never posted here before but I read postings all the time. Why would you trade for someone that will become a free agent this summer. Giving up young talent on their rookie contracts would make little sense. Wait for the summer and try and sign him. If he does not come then he would have also left for nothing if we traded for him. Unless we are trading for K-Love or another superstar that has 2 or more years left on his contract the Rockets should sit tight until summer. Does anyone else agree?
    Welcome to the forum. I like how you mentioned Kevin Love though. I was talking with a friend and I jokingly brought up how Morey has been in question for tampering when it comes to free agents in the past. I said that I thought the McHale signing was strange at the time and that it might be a ploy to get Kevin Love when he's available. Now that Morey has assembled a team in which every starting position is locked up except PF with a max contract to give seems like too much of a coincidence.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tr3ymill3r View Post
    Welcome to the forum. I like how you mentioned Kevin Love though. I was talking with a friend and I jokingly brought up how Morey has been in question for tampering when it comes to free agents in the past. I said that I thought the McHale signing was strange at the time and that it might be a ploy to get Kevin Love when he's available. Now that Morey has assembled a team in which every starting position is locked up except PF with a max contract to give seems like too much of a coincidence.
    Except Love is signed through like 2015...

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  11. #11
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    It makes no sense to trade for Millsap when he will be a FA in six months, and it's well known the Jazz won't re-sign one between him and Jefferson. Howard and Paul, even being extremely unlikely, should still be the #1 targets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDUTEXANS View Post
    It makes no sense to trade for Millsap when he will be a FA in six months, and it's well known the Jazz won't re-sign one between him and Jefferson. Howard and Paul, even being extremely unlikely, should still be the #1 targets.
    i'd rather go after Howard than Paul then trade Asik to New Orleans for Anderson.

    Howard
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    Harden
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    a team that can run, space the floor, have a post option and can defend in a decent rate. this idea gives me wet dreams.
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    i am pretty sure terrence jones is our stretch 4 after the trade deadline on into the future. i watched the rgv game today and his jumper was on point. dude can hit 3s from every side and has that smooth effortless stroke. im convinced that morey is showcasing morris and patterson to other teams and gonna make room for jones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tr3ymill3r View Post
    Welcome to the forum. I like how you mentioned Kevin Love though. I was talking with a friend and I jokingly brought up how Morey has been in question for tampering when it comes to free agents in the past. I said that I thought the McHale signing was strange at the time and that it might be a ploy to get Kevin Love when he's available. Now that Morey has assembled a team in which every starting position is locked up except PF with a max contract to give seems like too much of a coincidence.
    Was this you that was re-tweeted by royce?

    @tr3y_mill3r: Lawrence Funderburke was a beast compared to @Highway_30 that dude is just a *****. put down the twitter and play... #BeWell"

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    I have thought about trades that the Rockets could make that not only would work for the Rockets but also makes sence for the team we trade with. I have thought about swapping for a center that scores over Asik... but he seems to be working out fine with our current rotation. Then I thought about the PF spot and trades with Utah make sence but we have a ton of PF with a lot of upside with low contracts. So although many have talked about this being our weakest hole to fill. Well hold that thought for a second. How about SF then? I would say 4 out of 5 Rockets fans are more than happy with Parsons and don't want to see him traded. Although his great play may be up for discussion if great or even presuperstar. So moving on to the next two positions... guard. Neither Harden or Lin are going anywhere and will both continue to start for this team. So where does this leave us?

    Well let's look at the minor moves we have made and what that might tell us about where this team could possibly be going. First we pick up a pg (Beverly) who has playing time in Russia with some success. Then we cut Cook for a sg to a non guarenteed contract.

    Now look at our non guaranteed contracts or expiring contracts... Delfino, Douglas, and Cole. I think Smith has played WAY above what anybody had thought so let's leave him out of this category and put him in the Parsons category of great player but even better contract category.

    Then there are our young players who most believe have upside but are not really ready to contribute right now... but we also don't want to get rid of yet. I think Jones and D No are the two that fill in this category.

    So what are the Rockets setting themselves up for? In my opinion I think the Rockets biggest asset is not a player... but it is they are under the cap... by a lot. I think the Rockets have the expiring contracts (Douglas, Cole, and Delfineo) + the (approx salery) 7million to play with. Who in the league wants to get under the cap and take pennies on the dollar for an above average player? What comes to mind for me is Memphis and Rudy Gay. Now simmer down.... this is just an idea! Would you trade Parsons for Gay (forgetting about salaries)... most would probably say no. What about Patterson... again most would probably say no again. Now if you say Morris... then you might need to think about it.

    The Rockets have just got a possible back up PG and possible SG just locked up for team options with very low contracts. If you would have kept Cook then he would have been able to negotiate his contract for next year leaving an uncertainty in contract dollars for next year... not ideal with few draft picks left after any possible trades. You have your starting guards down as well. You have your PF's of Patterson, Smith, Jones, and D Mo. Certainly two of those will pan out one would think. Asik is solid at center as well. That leaves the SF position. Now if you could see Parsons as a solid starter then he could most certainly be a super solid 6th man.

    If you trade Douglas, Cole, Morris, and Delfinio to Memphis and whatever picks that might help... that would save them over 10 million + in penalty dollars this year and help them start to get under the cap next year. We are only one of maybe two or three teams that could help them as well as solidify our 6th man spot.

    If I were Morey that is what I would be doing... what do you think?

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