the REAL problem with the defense

[BChydro86]

Why cant these guys rotate or play any semblance of nba level team defense? The reason this gets me is because i once thought collins to be a very good coach for team D/rotations. I thought this because iggy was never a good team defender until collins showed up. This is all leading me to think that we miss elton brand more than id have ever thought possible.... His man to man d in the post, especially against bigger and more athletic guys always left a lot to be desired, but were his defensive rotations, IQ, and ability to help what really made him valuable?

The only consistently capable defensive player on this entire roster is jrue holiday, and he plays the spot that needs to rotate less because hes sticking the guy with the ball.

The problem, i think begins and ends with the bigs, hawes is slow, and lavoy just doesnt have a clue where or when to help out. Kwame is just a mutt who is epically stupid out there. Thad, ironically, may be the best of the bunch.

The wings arent much better, jrich young wright and turner never ever trap or help each other out.... Its like a pickup game in the back of a schoolyard week to week.

Arent they supposed to be a professional level defense? I see better defensive schemes in the freaking college game.

[SeoulBeatz]

Good observation.

We've all been debating about which of our defenders is worse (*the endless j-rich v.s E.T saga) but after watching the laker/suns games, it's clear that none of our wing defenders have been even adequate on their defensive rotations/sticking their man. It's hard to tell whether it's a lack of effort or Coach Collin's scheme. Either way, something's got to give. We have too many athletes on the perimeter to be so incredibly slow on our rotations. Having the worst/most slow-footed bigs in the league certainly doesn't help.

[RickyPrior]

I think you're a little off when it comes to Kwame and Jrue. You underrate the former's defense and overrate the latter's.

I think Jrue is getting better (much better than last year)...but he's not exactly one to brag about. But Kwame? Might be the ONLY Sixer who's ever heard the terms 'rotate' and 'weak-side help'.

[Knowledge]

Maybe Iggy was much better than you thought, but the guys around him played with the no discipline (Eddie Jordan) until Collins/Curry got here?

Also it has been stated in many a thread how valuable EB was to our post D. You replaced the only big on the team who could defend the post/move a little, with no one. Allen flashed some ability in the playoffs, but that is nowhere to be seen now.

One major problem is that Allen has shown no improvement (he is now a worse rebounder). Turner has never been a great defender (despite the expectation), and has always been average. Basically we replaced Iggy and Brand (or at least the Brand of last year) with 2 lesser players defensive players.

[Knowledge]

I think you're a little off when it comes to Kwame and Jrue. You underrate the former's defense and overrate the latter's.

I think Jrue is getting better (much better than last year)...but he's not exactly one to brag about. But Kwame? Might be the ONLY Sixer who's ever heard the terms 'rotate' and 'weak-side help'.

Jrue Holiday's defense isn't the problem.

If you need numerical evidence, the 0.478 points per possession he gives up is in the top 15% in the league, and he holds defenders to 22.2% shooting in these situations. Overall, his defense is top 15% in the league, according to Synergy Sports.

If anything hurts him, its his lack of support on PnRs from the bigs, but he still manages to play very good defense.

[sixer04fan]

Losing Iggy and Brand, without gaining Bynum, has made a huge difference. I'm very disappointed in the defense I've seen from pretty much every player on the team this year.

What Iggy brought to the team and what we're missing with him gone now goes without saying. As for Brand, I always thought he was one of the most underrated defensive players in the entire league last year, but I didn't expect the impact of his departure to be this severe. I almost expected Lavoy to come in and be Brand 2.0 this year. Hasn't happened.

And beyond all the technical characteristics of what made Iggy and Brand good defenders, and what made our defense great with them on the team, plain and simple they toughness and pride to the defensive side of the ball. And when they locked in on defense like that, the rest of the team bought in.

[BChydro86]

Maybe Iggy was much better than you thought, but the guys around him played with the no discipline (Eddie Jordan) until Collins/Curry got here?

Also it has been stated in many a thread how valuable EB was to our post D. You replaced the only big on the team who could defend the post/move a little, with no one. Allen flashed some ability in the playoffs, but that is nowhere to be seen now.

One major problem is that Allen has shown no improvement (he is now a worse rebounder). Turner has never been a great defender (despite the expectation), and has always been average. Basically we replaced Iggy and Brand (or at least the Brand of last year) with 2 lesser players defensive players.

Confused.... I gave iggy credit for becoming a GREAT defender and team defender.... Once upon a time, i gave that credit to collins/curry, but now its obvious that iggy improved that aspect either on his own or with elton brand.... Cause collins obviously isnt getting any of his other guys to rotate or help out at all.

Elton was extremely valuable to the team/post D and its obvious how much we miss him. But we cant forget that he was really bad one on one against taller more athletic bigs.

The ability we saw last year from allen was more on on one than rotational defense. He was able to stick guys like boozer and more notably KG out to 18 feet and in so they couldnt kill us. Id guess that lavoy still has this ability, he needs to now become a full fledged defensive ace to maximize his future career.... He should be a stronger more athletic tyronne hill. And to do that, hes gotta learn to rotate to stop penetrators when the wings get beat.

[RickyPrior]

Jrue Holiday's defense isn't the problem.

Never said it was. Just correcting the original statement.

[Knowledge]

I thought this because iggy was never a good team defender until collins showed up. This is all leading me to think that we miss elton brand more than id have ever thought possible

My bad. I interpreted this as you still believing he wasn't a good team defender until Collins showed.

Never said it was. Just correcting the original statement.

Yes, and I am saying based on the evidence above, he is a great defender and no overrated. .

[RickyPrior]

Yes, and I am saying based on the evidence above, he is a great defender and no overrated. .

Jesus Christ. Now Jrue is a "great defender".

Man, you're standards are pretty ****ing low.

Catch the game last night?

[Swashcuff]

Jrue Holiday's defense isn't the problem.



If anything hurts him, its his lack of support on PnRs from the bigs, but he still manages to play very good defense.

What article are you taking that from dude?

Oh and for more on Jrue's D you guys can take a look at this thread.

[Swashcuff]

Jesus Christ. Now Jrue is a "great defender".

Man, you're standards are pretty ****ing low.

Catch the game last night?

Caught the entire game. In order alleviate Jrue's defensive impact they attemtped to run as many PnRs as possible and create mismatches as a result. Their commentators even said that its a plot they expected to see them use against a team with an All Star calibre PG like Jrue.

By today's NBA standards Jrue is easily a top 5 defensive PG (Bledsoe is currently the best) so I'd say that's really good. Great? May be a stretch since Bledsoe has set himself apart from the rest in his 18 or so minutes of PT but Jrue is about as close to him as you'd get.

[RickyPrior]

What article are you taking that from dude?

Oh and for more on Jrue's D you guys can take a look at this thread.

Wow. So it says so in a THREAD.

Now I'm convinced.


Jrue's defense is fine; some nights he gets burned. Happened last night by a little, white nerd.

He's not the problem...but we have NO great defenders on this team.

[Knowledge]

Okay, maybe great is an overstatement. He is at least very good and on the verge of being great, while guarding the toughest position (night in and night out) in the NBA.

What article are you taking that from dude?

Oh and for more on Jrue's D you guys can take a look at

http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/1...nd-lavoy-allen

Its from a November 21st article on LB.

Defense is hard to measure since there are no stats for it and it requires careful film study, but Synergy tracks every possession of an NBA season. They have tape of every possession for their subscribers too. If they rank you in the top 15% that is pretty good.

[Swashcuff]

Wow. So it says so in a THREAD.

Now I'm convinced.


Jrue's defense is fine; some nights he gets burned. Happened last night by a little, white nerd.

He's not the problem...but we have NO great defenders on this team.

Really? From watching that game Jrue was hardly ever covering Dragic. The player you wish badly upon every living day spent more time on him than Jrue did. Why does he have to be a nerd though? I'm black and I think that stereotyping.